"Aidy" wrote in message
...
I think you misread what i wrote. If the accused only admits guilt after
the evidence is disclosed to them, is that held against them?

You're muddying the waters. In the situation we are discussing there is
no "accused". You are referring to steps further down the legal process.

Its a convuluted mechanism to avoid having to disclose evidence. In the
way that a parking ticket is considered a 'charge' and not a 'fine'.

No, it's a courtesy and benefit to allow everyone (the driver, the police
and the courts) to deal with what is a trivial matter in an easy way.
However many people fail to see this as a benefit and, given an inch, want
to take a mile. No-one is convoluting to avoid anything. If you want
"due process" then follow the steps and be treated like every other person
accused of an offence, deny the charges and go to court and see the
evidence. Why do you think drivers should be given a benefit that people
accused of other offences are not? Don't want to do the time....don't do
the crime.

If you want me to 'do the time', you can give me full proper "due process".

Gaz

If you believe that every road with street lighting has the same speed
limit, it is *you* who is ignorant.

If I believed that I would have wrote that.

Rubbish. I've seen quite a few examples of non-existent or contradictory
signage. As someone who habitually obeys the speedlimit, and always looks
for evidence of what the limit is, I well know the truth of this. One
particularly bad example I can think of was a stretch of dual carriageway
in Coventry, limit 60, repeater signs and enforced by fixed camera. On
the slip road there was a NSL sign. The first 60 repeater sign was
*after* the camera. When I first encountered that road, it was pure luck
that I did go past the camera at 70 and thus get a ticket. So don't ****
down my back and tell me it's raining!.

If the signage is incorrect then contest your ticket via the options
provided.

Cynic gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

What a pile of sanctimoneous twaddle. It is quite possible to
inadvertently exceed the speed limit in a 30mph zone because there are
no repeater signs. All it takes is for the initial sign which
announces the start of the 30mph zone to be obscured by a bus, an
artic or even vegetation. If you don't know the area it's easy to miss
this.

How about the streetlighting? Does that all hide, too?

I'm not sure of your point. What's the streetlighting got to do with
knowing the *posted* speed limit on a road?

Simple. Streetlights but no repeaters means default 30.

You are travelling along a road with street lighting. There are
reapeater signs at intervals telling you that there is a 40MPH speed
limit in force. You become aware that you have not seen a repeater sign
for some time. At exactly what point, if any, will you decide that the
road has become a 30MPH limit?

When it becomes clear that it's not just one or two missing repeaters.

As Sue said, the initial sign indicating the start of the 30 limit may
have been obscured, or you may have failed to see it for a number of
perfectly understandable reasons.

Indeed. So after missing a few repeaters - especially with no repeaters
for oncoming traffic, you assume that you're in a default 30.

If you want me to 'do the time', you can give me full proper "due
process".

And the option is there if you want to take it.

"Cynic" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:21:15 +0100, "mentalguy2004"
wrote:

You say "But, if there is no other traffic, I have to be really, really
sure
what the limit is, to go through a speedcam at over 30". Does that mean
you
will go through at 40 if there *is* other traffic also doing 40?

Of course. In that case the fact that the other traffic is not
triggering the speed camera makes it certain that it is safe to pass
it at that speed.

How ould you klnow whether the other traffic was triggering it or not - most
modern cameras don't flash or give any other visible indication of
triggering.

PDR

At 09:51:29 on 23/07/2008, Paul Hyett delighted uk.legal by announcing:

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 at 19:17:40, Palindrome wrote
in uk.legal :

Gaz wrote:
snip
A crooked description of justice if ever I heard one. This needs
to be stopped. The OP was being asked to admit to an offence he
did not know, or had no way of knowing he had committed.

I do hope that the OP did know that he had been speeding. What he
didn't know was if they had caught him and had enough evidence to
convict. They had and they did.

Even so, he had the right to see the evidence against him before
changing his plea.

I may be wrong, but AIUI, if you were to change your plea part way
through a crown court trial, you wouldn't suffer a punishment over &
above what the original offence demanded,

Exactly.

in fact pleading guilty
will get you a lighter sentence - so why is there additional
punishment in the OP's circumstances?

There isn't. The 'punishment' is points and a fine. You have the
opportunity to reduce the punishment by accepting a *conditional* fixed
penalty.

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:15:38 +0100, "PDR"
wrote:

Of course. In that case the fact that the other traffic is not
triggering the speed camera makes it certain that it is safe to pass
it at that speed.

How ould you klnow whether the other traffic was triggering it or not - most
modern cameras don't flash or give any other visible indication of
triggering.

All the ones I see regularly are Gatsos that flash when they are
triggered. But even if not, it is a reasonable assumption that a good
proportion of the drivers on a busy road will know both the speed
limit and the fact that there is a speed camera present, so I would
expect a goodly proportion of the traffic to be driving more slowly if
it was a 30MPH zone.

--
Cynic

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:39:50 +0100, "Aidy"
wrote:

If you believe that every road with street lighting has the same speed
limit, it is *you* who is ignorant.

If I believed that I would have wrote that.

And if you didn't then your comment was irrelevant.

--
Cynic

On 23 Jul 2008 11:41:43 GMT, Adrian wrote:

How about the streetlighting? Does that all hide, too?

I'm not sure of your point. What's the streetlighting got to do with
knowing the *posted* speed limit on a road?

Simple. Streetlights but no repeaters means default 30.

You are travelling along a road with street lighting. There are
reapeater signs at intervals telling you that there is a 40MPH speed
limit in force. You become aware that you have not seen a repeater sign
for some time. At exactly what point, if any, will you decide that the
road has become a 30MPH limit?

When it becomes clear that it's not just one or two missing repeaters.

By which time you may have triggered a camera.

As Sue said, the initial sign indicating the start of the 30 limit may
have been obscured, or you may have failed to see it for a number of
perfectly understandable reasons.

Indeed. So after missing a few repeaters - especially with no repeaters
for oncoming traffic, you assume that you're in a default 30.

Which will not help you if the speed camera was placed just after the
30MPH sign that was blocked from your view by the parked artic or
whatever. It will be quite a while later before you realise that
there are no repeater signs.

--
Cynic