R. Mark Clayton wrote:
"Webmanager_CritEst" wrote in message
...
On Aug 27, 6:16 pm, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:
"Webmanager_CritEst" wrote in message

...



On Aug 27, 5:43 pm, "The Todal" wrote:
Webmanager_CritEst wrote:
Presumed guilty: The loving stepfather devoted to helping autistic
youngsters now fighting to clear his name
By Natasha Courtenay-Smith
Last updated at 12:26 AM on 27th August 2008
Every second Thursday, John Pinnington follows the same, rather
bleak
routine.
After breakfast, he heads to his local JobCentre, where he collects
his dole money for the week ahead.
It is a paltry sum, a mere fraction of what he used to earn when he
was the respected deputy headmaster of an Oxfordshire college for
young adults with learning difficulties.
He and his wife Rosie no longer enjoy the comforts of the lifestyle
they once led.
Instead of playing the martyr and appealing for help from Daily Wail
readers, he should behave like a professional. Apply for jobs, submit
his
CV
and explain if necessary with a copy of the court judgment that he is
in
fact scrupulously honest and has never abused anyone.
But he has probably got himself a reputation now as a whinger and a
troublemaker.
Again, you have no idea.
WM
Once is unfortunate, twice careless, but three times...
Point please?

WM

Beyond reasonable doubt (should he go to prison?) it could not be proved -
poor witnesses and no corroboration.

On the balance of probabilities (should he keep his job?) the balance tips
the other way.



A jury would have decided "beyond reasonable doubt".

No one decides "balance of probability" so, if the suspicions are
recorded, even a 0.1% probability of guilt will be as effective as a 50%
(or eve 99%) one in closing off areas of vocation and employment.

In practice, teachers/lecturers practices and office spaces have all
changed to eliminate the possibility of a credible accusation. Students
with difficulties (eg identified to be likely candidates for "bad news",
those with mental problems, etc) are handled especially carefully - as
they are the most likely to make (false) complaints.

No student would ever be allowed to be alone, unobserved, with a member
of staff. Only if that happens can there be even a 0.001% probability of
guilt.

In this case, if other members of staff had been in a position to state
categorically that the individual was never alone with the student, this
whole unfortunate sequence of events would have ended, immediately.

--
Sue

On Aug 28, 12:07 am, Palindrome wrote:
R. Mark Clayton wrote:
"Webmanager_CritEst" wrote in message
...
On Aug 27, 6:16 pm, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:
"Webmanager_CritEst" wrote in message

...

On Aug 27, 5:43 pm, "The Todal" wrote:
Webmanager_CritEst wrote:
Presumed guilty: The loving stepfather devoted to helping autistic
youngsters now fighting to clear his name
By Natasha Courtenay-Smith
Last updated at 12:26 AM on 27th August 2008
Every second Thursday, John Pinnington follows the same, rather
bleak
routine.
After breakfast, he heads to his local JobCentre, where he collects
his dole money for the week ahead.
It is a paltry sum, a mere fraction of what he used to earn when he
was the respected deputy headmaster of an Oxfordshire college for
young adults with learning difficulties.
He and his wife Rosie no longer enjoy the comforts of the lifestyle
they once led.
Instead of playing the martyr and appealing for help from Daily Wail
readers, he should behave like a professional. Apply for jobs, submit
his
CV
and explain if necessary with a copy of the court judgment that he is
in
fact scrupulously honest and has never abused anyone.
But he has probably got himself a reputation now as a whinger and a
troublemaker.
Again, you have no idea.
WM
Once is unfortunate, twice careless, but three times...
Point please?

WM

Beyond reasonable doubt (should he go to prison?) it could not be proved -
poor witnesses and no corroboration.

On the balance of probabilities (should he keep his job?) the balance tips
the other way.

A jury would have decided "beyond reasonable doubt".

No one decides "balance of probability" so, if the suspicions are
recorded, even a 0.1% probability of guilt will be as effective as a 50%
(or eve 99%) one in closing off areas of vocation and employment.

In practice, teachers/lecturers practices and office spaces have all
changed to eliminate the possibility of a credible accusation. Students
with difficulties (eg identified to be likely candidates for "bad news",
those with mental problems, etc) are handled especially carefully - as
they are the most likely to make (false) complaints.

No student would ever be allowed to be alone, unobserved, with a member
of staff. Only if that happens can there be even a 0.001% probability of
guilt.

In this case, if other members of staff had been in a position to state
categorically that the individual was never alone with the student, this
whole unfortunate sequence of events would have ended, immediately.

--
Sue

This is not true Sue. Even though precautions are certainly taken,
form tutors have private interviews with their wards all the time (as
do higher level staff).

P.S. is that your interpretation of BOP?

WM

On Aug 28, 12:07 am, Palindrome wrote:
R. Mark Clayton wrote:
"Webmanager_CritEst" wrote in message
...
On Aug 27, 6:16 pm, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:
"Webmanager_CritEst" wrote in message

...

On Aug 27, 5:43 pm, "The Todal" wrote:
Webmanager_CritEst wrote:
Presumed guilty: The loving stepfather devoted to helping autistic
youngsters now fighting to clear his name
By Natasha Courtenay-Smith
Last updated at 12:26 AM on 27th August 2008
Every second Thursday, John Pinnington follows the same, rather
bleak
routine.
After breakfast, he heads to his local JobCentre, where he collects
his dole money for the week ahead.
It is a paltry sum, a mere fraction of what he used to earn when he
was the respected deputy headmaster of an Oxfordshire college for
young adults with learning difficulties.
He and his wife Rosie no longer enjoy the comforts of the lifestyle
they once led.
Instead of playing the martyr and appealing for help from Daily Wail
readers, he should behave like a professional. Apply for jobs, submit
his
CV
and explain if necessary with a copy of the court judgment that he is
in
fact scrupulously honest and has never abused anyone.
But he has probably got himself a reputation now as a whinger and a
troublemaker.
Again, you have no idea.
WM
Once is unfortunate, twice careless, but three times...
Point please?

WM

Beyond reasonable doubt (should he go to prison?) it could not be proved -
poor witnesses and no corroboration.

On the balance of probabilities (should he keep his job?) the balance tips
the other way.

A jury would have decided "beyond reasonable doubt".

No one decides "balance of probability" so, if the suspicions are
recorded, even a 0.1% probability of guilt will be as effective as a 50%
(or eve 99%) one in closing off areas of vocation and employment.

In practice, teachers/lecturers practices and office spaces have all
changed to eliminate the possibility of a credible accusation. Students
with difficulties (eg identified to be likely candidates for "bad news",
those with mental problems, etc) are handled especially carefully - as
they are the most likely to make (false) complaints.

No student would ever be allowed to be alone, unobserved, with a member
of staff. Only if that happens can there be even a 0.001% probability of
guilt.

In this case, if other members of staff had been in a position to state
categorically that the individual was never alone with the student, this
whole unfortunate sequence of events would have ended, immediately.

--
Sue

What you describe is an effective, back-watching CP Policy

WM

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:50:24 +0100, Michael Swift
wrote:

This system is so open to abuse by nasty individuals that it should be
discontinued at once, there was a phone in from a teacher who
disciplined an unruly pupil who immediately made a totally unfounded
assault complaint against him, this made it impossible for him to get
another job for several months until he found an employer with a bit of
common sense.

Mike

I am surprised that they still get people to go into the teaching
profession. It used to be relatively easy to qualify as a teacher.
Five "O" levels would get you into a teacher training college but
nowadays it's as tough as any other profession and tougher than many.
Teachers, these days, need a degree plus a year's teacher training
plus another year's probationary service to become fully qualified.
Yet all this work and dedication could go down the pan following an
unfounded allegation by a disgruntled pupil.

When someone does a spell in prison following a miscarriage of
justice, he usually comes away with a substantial pay-out but there
doesn't seem to be any system of compensation when a professional
person, be he teacher, policeman, social worker or whoever loses his
career on the basis of unfounded allegations.

--
Alasdair.

On Aug 28, 12:34 am, Alasdair wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:50:24 +0100, Michael Swift

wrote:
This system is so open to abuse by nasty individuals that it should be
discontinued at once, there was a phone in from a teacher who
disciplined an unruly pupil who immediately made a totally unfounded
assault complaint against him, this made it impossible for him to get
another job for several months until he found an employer with a bit of
common sense.

Mike

I am surprised that they still get people to go into the teaching
profession. It used to be relatively easy to qualify as a teacher.
Five "O" levels would get you into a teacher training college but
nowadays it's as tough as any other profession and tougher than many.
Teachers, these days, need a degree plus a year's teacher training
plus another year's probationary service to become fully qualified.
Yet all this work and dedication could go down the pan following an
unfounded allegation by a disgruntled pupil.

When someone does a spell in prison following a miscarriage of
justice, he usually comes away with a substantial pay-out but there
doesn't seem to be any system of compensation when a professional
person, be he teacher, policeman, social worker or whoever loses his
career on the basis of unfounded allegations.

--
Alasdair.

Child Protection Policy - Appendix 4

Allegations against staff

Between 2003 and 2004 2,162 allegations of abuse were made against
school staff nationally. Of these allegations, 19% were made against
staff in their first year of teaching. Therefore, all staff are
advised to consider child protection allegations when carrying out
their duties and avoid making themselves vulnerable to allegations.
Some simple don’ts include:

• Offering lifts to students
• Lending items to students
• Exchanging personal information, e.g. phone numbers, with students
• Working alone with students behind closed doors or with curtains and
blinds drawn
• Discussing personal topics with students
• Touching students when it isn’t to restrain them (see guidance on
restraint) or deal with a medical emergency. There are situations
when touching a student as part of a teaching activity, to offer
support or sympathy, or to encourage a student can be helpful but
staff should know that this may make them vulnerable and so isn’t
routinely advised.

Following this advice will help staff protect themselves against false
accusations.

Where allegations have been made about a member of the staff a report
should be made in strict confidence to the Headteacher. The same
procedure applies if there are suspicions that a member of staff is
involved in abusing a young person, in school or elsewhere. The
Headteacher should then inform the senior EWO. This consultation
will then lead to a discussion about arrangements for investigation
and no investigation should commence prior to these arrangements being
made.

Varndean School
September 2007

*****
WM

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
The Todal wrote:
Webmanager_CritEst wrote:
Presumed guilty: The loving stepfather devoted to helping
autistic
youngsters now fighting to clear his name

By Natasha Courtenay-Smith

Last updated at 12:26 AM on 27th August 2008

Every second Thursday, John Pinnington follows the same,
rather bleak
routine.

After breakfast, he heads to his local JobCentre, where he
collects
his dole money for the week ahead.

It is a paltry sum, a mere fraction of what he used to earn
when he
was the respected deputy headmaster of an Oxfordshire college
for
young adults with learning difficulties.

He and his wife Rosie no longer enjoy the comforts of the
lifestyle
they once led.

Instead of playing the martyr and appealing for help from
Daily Wail
readers, he should behave like a professional. Apply for jobs,
submit
his CV and explain if necessary with a copy of the court
judgment
that he is in fact scrupulously honest and has never abused
anyone.

But he has probably got himself a reputation now as a whinger
and a
troublemaker.

I think that's rather unfair. Many employers will now avoid
taking on such applicants, just in case, so he's potentially
blacklisted for life without any finding of culpability against
him.

If I was a frontline teacher (especially a man) I'd now be
taking care to avoid any complaints, with resulting detriment
to the quality of education & care offered to pupils.

With those sort of risks attached to teaching, it surely must
make a difference to those already doing the job, and those
thinking of taking up the profession.

I certainly wouldn't want a job that I could lose on the whim of
a disgruntled pupil. Possibly after years of devoting my life to
it.
I'd be seriously looking for a less risky occupation.

Seems the slightest whiff of impropriety, and heads roll. (No pun
intended)

PC gone mad IMO.
Mike.

Webmanager_CritEst wrote:
On Aug 28, 12:07 am, Palindrome wrote:
R. Mark Clayton wrote:
"Webmanager_CritEst" wrote in message
...
On Aug 27, 6:16 pm, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:
"Webmanager_CritEst" wrote in message
...
On Aug 27, 5:43 pm, "The Todal" wrote:
Webmanager_CritEst wrote:
Presumed guilty: The loving stepfather devoted to helping autistic
youngsters now fighting to clear his name
By Natasha Courtenay-Smith
Last updated at 12:26 AM on 27th August 2008
Every second Thursday, John Pinnington follows the same, rather
bleak
routine.
After breakfast, he heads to his local JobCentre, where he collects
his dole money for the week ahead.
It is a paltry sum, a mere fraction of what he used to earn when he
was the respected deputy headmaster of an Oxfordshire college for
young adults with learning difficulties.
He and his wife Rosie no longer enjoy the comforts of the lifestyle
they once led.
Instead of playing the martyr and appealing for help from Daily Wail
readers, he should behave like a professional. Apply for jobs, submit
his
CV
and explain if necessary with a copy of the court judgment that he is
in
fact scrupulously honest and has never abused anyone.
But he has probably got himself a reputation now as a whinger and a
troublemaker.
Again, you have no idea.
WM
Once is unfortunate, twice careless, but three times...
Point please?
WM
Beyond reasonable doubt (should he go to prison?) it could not be proved -
poor witnesses and no corroboration.
On the balance of probabilities (should he keep his job?) the balance tips
the other way.
A jury would have decided "beyond reasonable doubt".

No one decides "balance of probability" so, if the suspicions are
recorded, even a 0.1% probability of guilt will be as effective as a 50%
(or eve 99%) one in closing off areas of vocation and employment.

In practice, teachers/lecturers practices and office spaces have all
changed to eliminate the possibility of a credible accusation. Students
with difficulties (eg identified to be likely candidates for "bad news",
those with mental problems, etc) are handled especially carefully - as
they are the most likely to make (false) complaints.

No student would ever be allowed to be alone, unobserved, with a member
of staff. Only if that happens can there be even a 0.001% probability of
guilt.

In this case, if other members of staff had been in a position to state
categorically that the individual was never alone with the student, this
whole unfortunate sequence of events would have ended, immediately.

--
Sue

This is not true Sue. Even though precautions are certainly taken,
form tutors have private interviews with their wards all the time (as
do higher level staff).

P.S. is that your interpretation of BOP?

It just doesn't happen these days*, without another person being able to
observe what was done (and often what was said). Even were someone
crazy enough to do so, they certainly wouldn't do so with a student that
they didn't trust to a very high degree.

*Or for a very considerable time. We changed office layouts in the 90s
because of this and from that time until today I have never seen a
student, in private, unobserved. Some staff do - IMHO, they are putting
their careers at unnecessary risk.

50%. What's yours?

--
Sue

Alasdair wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:50:24 +0100, Michael Swift
wrote:

This system is so open to abuse by nasty individuals that it should be
discontinued at once, there was a phone in from a teacher who
disciplined an unruly pupil who immediately made a totally unfounded
assault complaint against him, this made it impossible for him to get
another job for several months until he found an employer with a bit of
common sense.

Mike

I am surprised that they still get people to go into the teaching
profession. It used to be relatively easy to qualify as a teacher.
Five "O" levels would get you into a teacher training college but
nowadays it's as tough as any other profession and tougher than many.
Teachers, these days, need a degree plus a year's teacher training
plus another year's probationary service to become fully qualified.
Yet all this work and dedication could go down the pan following an
unfounded allegation by a disgruntled pupil.

No it does not. The pupil makes the allegation. Compelling evidence is
almost immediately to hand to prove that the allegation is unfounded.
The student gets suspended.


When someone does a spell in prison following a miscarriage of
justice, he usually comes away with a substantial pay-out but there
doesn't seem to be any system of compensation when a professional
person, be he teacher, policeman, social worker or whoever loses his
career on the basis of unfounded allegations.


And the reason why people are still joining the profession is that this
doesn't happen, at least as far as teaching is concerned. It is drummed
into trainee teachers how to manage students - including how to manage
individual students, when that is needed. A teacher doesn't take a
student into their office, alone, any more. No big deal.

--
Sue

On Aug 28, 1:55 am, Palindrome wrote:
Webmanager_CritEst wrote:
On Aug 28, 12:07 am, Palindrome wrote:
R. Mark Clayton wrote:
"Webmanager_CritEst" wrote in message
...
On Aug 27, 6:16 pm, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:
"Webmanager_CritEst" wrote in message
...
On Aug 27, 5:43 pm, "The Todal" wrote:
Webmanager_CritEst wrote:
Presumed guilty: The loving stepfather devoted to helping autistic
youngsters now fighting to clear his name
By Natasha Courtenay-Smith
Last updated at 12:26 AM on 27th August 2008
Every second Thursday, John Pinnington follows the same, rather
bleak
routine.
After breakfast, he heads to his local JobCentre, where he collects
his dole money for the week ahead.
It is a paltry sum, a mere fraction of what he used to earn when he
was the respected deputy headmaster of an Oxfordshire college for
young adults with learning difficulties.
He and his wife Rosie no longer enjoy the comforts of the lifestyle
they once led.
Instead of playing the martyr and appealing for help from Daily Wail
readers, he should behave like a professional. Apply for jobs, submit
his
CV
and explain if necessary with a copy of the court judgment that he is
in
fact scrupulously honest and has never abused anyone.
But he has probably got himself a reputation now as a whinger and a
troublemaker.
Again, you have no idea.
WM
Once is unfortunate, twice careless, but three times...
Point please?
WM
Beyond reasonable doubt (should he go to prison?) it could not be proved -
poor witnesses and no corroboration.
On the balance of probabilities (should he keep his job?) the balance tips
the other way.
A jury would have decided "beyond reasonable doubt".

No one decides "balance of probability" so, if the suspicions are
recorded, even a 0.1% probability of guilt will be as effective as a 50%
(or eve 99%) one in closing off areas of vocation and employment.

In practice, teachers/lecturers practices and office spaces have all
changed to eliminate the possibility of a credible accusation. Students
with difficulties (eg identified to be likely candidates for "bad news",
those with mental problems, etc) are handled especially carefully - as
they are the most likely to make (false) complaints.

No student would ever be allowed to be alone, unobserved, with a member
of staff. Only if that happens can there be even a 0.001% probability of
guilt.

In this case, if other members of staff had been in a position to state
categorically that the individual was never alone with the student, this
whole unfortunate sequence of events would have ended, immediately.

--
Sue

This is not true Sue. Even though precautions are certainly taken,
form tutors have private interviews with their wards all the time (as
do higher level staff).

P.S. is that your interpretation of BOP?

It just doesn't happen these days*, without another person being able to
observe what was done (and often what was said). Even were someone
crazy enough to do so, they certainly wouldn't do so with a student that
they didn't trust to a very high degree.

*Or for a very considerable time. We changed office layouts in the 90s
because of this and from that time until today I have never seen a
student, in private, unobserved. Some staff do - IMHO, they are putting
their careers at unnecessary risk.

50%. What's yours?

--
Sue

"Some staff do - IMHO, they are putting their careers at unnecessary
risk. "

IMHO - I cannot see how anyone can be an effective teacher
(particularly a form tutor, up to Secondary) by not doing so, now and
then.

It's what I did (but they loved me and would never get me in
trouble ), but that is academic, now, for me.

WM

On Aug 28, 2:03 am, Palindrome wrote:
Alasdair wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:50:24 +0100, Michael Swift
wrote:

This system is so open to abuse by nasty individuals that it should be
discontinued at once, there was a phone in from a teacher who
disciplined an unruly pupil who immediately made a totally unfounded
assault complaint against him, this made it impossible for him to get
another job for several months until he found an employer with a bit of
common sense.

Mike

I am surprised that they still get people to go into the teaching
profession. It used to be relatively easy to qualify as a teacher.
Five "O" levels would get you into a teacher training college but
nowadays it's as tough as any other profession and tougher than many.
Teachers, these days, need a degree plus a year's teacher training
plus another year's probationary service to become fully qualified.
Yet all this work and dedication could go down the pan following an
unfounded allegation by a disgruntled pupil.

No it does not. The pupil makes the allegation. Compelling evidence is
almost immediately to hand to prove that the allegation is unfounded.
The student gets suspended.



When someone does a spell in prison following a miscarriage of
justice, he usually comes away with a substantial pay-out but there
doesn't seem to be any system of compensation when a professional
person, be he teacher, policeman, social worker or whoever loses his
career on the basis of unfounded allegations.

And the reason why people are still joining the profession is that this
doesn't happen, at least as far as teaching is concerned. It is drummed
into trainee teachers how to manage students - including how to manage
individual students, when that is needed. A teacher doesn't take a
student into their office, alone, any more. No big deal.

--
Sue

So much is now explained.

WM