Criminals serving Community Service will have to wear orange bibs,says Jack Straw

On Nov 28, 4:31*pm, Special Care
wrote:
On Nov 28, 4:25*pm, Webmanager_CritEst wrote:

On Nov 28, 4:23*pm, Special Care
wrote:

There's a lot of debate about "public shaming." I remember reading a
couple of favourable reports on it from USA, but I don't know what the
ultimate answer is.http://www.restorativejustice.org/ed...feb08/saruling

I am all for restorative justice, but that does not include the
humiliation of anyone.

WM

----------------

Is telling the truth about someone "humiliation." Is it wrong to tell
the truth about someone? Or to impose on them the requirement that
they display a placard telling the truth about themselves?

Yes, to some ... and then they seek revenge.

WM

On Nov 28, 4:31*pm, Special Care
wrote:
On Nov 28, 4:25*pm, Webmanager_CritEst wrote:

On Nov 28, 4:23*pm, Special Care
wrote:

There's a lot of debate about "public shaming." I remember reading a
couple of favourable reports on it from USA, but I don't know what the
ultimate answer is.http://www.restorativejustice.org/ed...feb08/saruling

I am all for restorative justice, but that does not include the
humiliation of anyone.

WM

----------------

Is telling the truth about someone "humiliation." Is it wrong to tell
the truth about someone? Or to impose on them the requirement that
they display a placard telling the truth about themselves?

Yes, to some ... and then they seek revenge.

WM

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 07:43:30 -0800 (PST), Webmanager_CritEst
wrote:

Criminals serving Community Service will have to wear orange bibs,
says Jack Straw

27/11/2008
Jack Straw
Community Payback

Offenders will be forced into orange uniforms when they carry out
community sentences from Monday.

In an exclusive interview, Justice Secretary Jack Straw revealed he is
making it compulsory to put wrong-doers into “vests of shame” from
next week.

He is pressing ahead despite fears Guantanamo-style outfits will
humiliate the wearers.

A total of 10,000 high- visibility tabards with “community payback”
emblazoned across the back have been ordered by the Ministry of
Justice.

The words are in purple and there will also be a “community payback”
logo on the front.

And what if these become designer items and are worn by the general
public? Will Straw have non-offenders arrested? Then they'll be able
to wear 'em anyway.

MM

Webmanager_CritEst wrote:
Criminals serving Community Service will have to wear orange bibs,
says Jack Straw

27/11/2008
Jack Straw
Community Payback

Offenders will be forced into orange uniforms when they carry out
community sentences from Monday.

In an exclusive interview, Justice Secretary Jack Straw revealed he is
making it compulsory to put wrong-doers into “vests of shame” from
next week.

He is pressing ahead despite fears Guantanamo-style outfits will
humiliate the wearers.

A total of 10,000 high- visibility tabards with “community payback”
emblazoned across the back have been ordered by the Ministry of
Justice.

The words are in purple and there will also be a “community payback”
logo on the front.

The uniforms will become a common sight as offenders wear them while
doing manual labour on Britain’s streets.

The vests have been made orange to make sure thugs cannot claim they
are construction or council workers who wear yellow outfits.

And Mr Straw told the Daily Mirror it was part of a shake-up to put
punishment back at the heart of the criminal justice system.

He said it was time to make it tougher for offenders.

Mr Straw said: “The whole purpose of this is to strengthen the
effectiveness of community punishments and improve the public’s
confidence in them.

“Community punishments are effective – often more effective than short
prison sentence.

“But some offenders think when they are given a community punishment
they are being let off.

“And the public can be forgiven for thinking the same thing. too.”

He added: “The public want to know the sentence is first and foremost
about punishment.”

Probation officers are expected to attack the move as demeaning to
offenders and dangerous as they could lead to attacks.

But Government Respect Tsar Louise Casey who has headed a major
inquiry into restoring public confidence in the criminal justice
system said it was time to make sentences tougher.

Sitting alongside Mr Straw, she said: “What is important is that
people who break the law face a consequence and that isn’t pleasant.

“The point of the orange jackets is not to humiliate people but to
make the punishment visible. We have got to be clear that if you wake
up in the morning, you go out and commit a criminal offence then you
are going to face a consequence.

“One of those consequences is that you will end up in an orange jacket
cleaning the streets in your community. From Monday that is the
message.’’ She added: “This is about making people accountable for the
offences they commit.

“The public want this to happen and it’s going to happen.”

Ms Casey added that as well as pushing offenders it would also deter
other youngsters from carrying out crimes. She tells a story of how in
a trial scheme in Birmingham, offenders were made to clean toilets in
a community centre.

“One of the kids said ‘The last thing I want to do is clean those
toilets. I think I’ll steer clear of trouble. This is why visibility
is so important.”

Mr Straw has acknowledged it had been a tough battle to bring in the
new uniforms with the Probation Service warning they would be the
modern equivalent of chain gangs.

Former Home Secretary Charles Clarke had to do an embarrassing U-turn
when he first suggested the plan in 2005. And critics claimed it would
mean offenders being humiliated in orange Guantanamo Bay-style boiler
suits.

But Mr Straw said it was important probation officers who supervise
criminals when they carry out community sentences toughen up.

He said: “Some parts of the Probation Service have frankly lost their
way over the years.

“It is really important they get it back. Otherwise the public
pressure for more and more offenders to go to prison will increase. It
is very important for the Probation Service and the future of the
Probation Service.

“It is vital that given the very large sums of money spent on the
Probation Service that the Probation Service better connect with the
public.”

He added: “There has been a lot of anxiety about humiliation.

“But the crucial thing is this – people who become offenders humiliate
themselves.” Ms Casey added: “We have to be clear when we punish
people. That means we can be clear we are spending money and time
making sure they don’t do it again.”

Ministers are also thinking about getting people to nominate “grot
spots” which need cleaning up.

Ms Casey people should be able to phone up a special telephone line or
nominate at public meetings areas they wanted cleaned up. The public
must see consequences for people committing offences.” Mr Straw also
said reforming community sentences would have a big impact on jail
overcrowding.

He said: “Magistrates will tell you they send people to prison out of
frustration that offenders have not got the message after a number of
chances with community sentences.

“The more effective we can make community sentences then the fewer
people will need to be sent to prison.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-20929997/

***

“The more effective we can make community sentences then the fewer
people will need to be sent to prison.”

You idiot, Straw ...to think this is, in any way, 'effective'.

WM
www.critest.com

From what I've been told community service sentences are seen as a bit
of a joke by offenders and if this is generally the case silly labels,
dunces caps, or red noses will not fix that.
Community service should not be a waste of time, and should engage the
mind and will of the offender on appropriate productive tasks.
Evidently all the government can come up with is the price of a few labels.

j

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 07:43:30 -0800 (PST), Webmanager_CritEst
wrote:

Criminals serving Community Service will have to wear orange bibs,
says Jack Straw

27/11/2008
Jack Straw
Community Payback

Offenders will be forced into orange uniforms when they carry out
community sentences from Monday.

In an exclusive interview, Justice Secretary Jack Straw revealed he is
making it compulsory to put wrong-doers into "vests of shame" from
next week.

He is pressing ahead despite fears Guantanamo-style outfits will
humiliate the wearers.

A total of 10,000 high- visibility tabards with "community payback"
emblazoned across the back have been ordered by the Ministry of
Justice.

The words are in purple and there will also be a "community payback"
logo on the front.

And what if these become designer items and are worn by the general
public? Will Straw have non-offenders arrested? Then they'll be able
to wear 'em anyway.

MM

Prison clothing gets good money on ebay

djornsk wrote:
Webmanager_CritEst wrote:
Criminals serving Community Service will have to wear orange bibs,
says Jack Straw

27/11/2008
Jack Straw
Community Payback

Offenders will be forced into orange uniforms when they carry out
community sentences from Monday.

In an exclusive interview, Justice Secretary Jack Straw revealed he
is making it compulsory to put wrong-doers into “vests of shame” from
next week.

He is pressing ahead despite fears Guantanamo-style outfits will
humiliate the wearers.

A total of 10,000 high- visibility tabards with “community payback”
emblazoned across the back have been ordered by the Ministry of
Justice.

The words are in purple and there will also be a “community payback”
logo on the front.

The uniforms will become a common sight as offenders wear them while
doing manual labour on Britain’s streets.

The vests have been made orange to make sure thugs cannot claim they
are construction or council workers who wear yellow outfits.

And Mr Straw told the Daily Mirror it was part of a shake-up to put
punishment back at the heart of the criminal justice system.

He said it was time to make it tougher for offenders.

Mr Straw said: “The whole purpose of this is to strengthen the
effectiveness of community punishments and improve the public’s
confidence in them.

“Community punishments are effective – often more effective than
short prison sentence.

“But some offenders think when they are given a community punishment
they are being let off.

“And the public can be forgiven for thinking the same thing. too.”

He added: “The public want to know the sentence is first and foremost
about punishment.”

Probation officers are expected to attack the move as demeaning to
offenders and dangerous as they could lead to attacks.

But Government Respect Tsar Louise Casey who has headed a major
inquiry into restoring public confidence in the criminal justice
system said it was time to make sentences tougher.

Sitting alongside Mr Straw, she said: “What is important is that
people who break the law face a consequence and that isn’t pleasant.

“The point of the orange jackets is not to humiliate people but to
make the punishment visible. We have got to be clear that if you wake
up in the morning, you go out and commit a criminal offence then you
are going to face a consequence.

“One of those consequences is that you will end up in an orange
jacket cleaning the streets in your community. From Monday that is
the message.’’ She added: “This is about making people accountable
for the offences they commit.

“The public want this to happen and it’s going to happen.”

Ms Casey added that as well as pushing offenders it would also deter
other youngsters from carrying out crimes. She tells a story of how
in a trial scheme in Birmingham, offenders were made to clean
toilets in a community centre.

“One of the kids said ‘The last thing I want to do is clean those
toilets. I think I’ll steer clear of trouble. This is why visibility
is so important.”

Mr Straw has acknowledged it had been a tough battle to bring in the
new uniforms with the Probation Service warning they would be the
modern equivalent of chain gangs.

Former Home Secretary Charles Clarke had to do an embarrassing U-turn
when he first suggested the plan in 2005. And critics claimed it
would mean offenders being humiliated in orange Guantanamo Bay-style
boiler suits.

But Mr Straw said it was important probation officers who supervise
criminals when they carry out community sentences toughen up.

He said: “Some parts of the Probation Service have frankly lost their
way over the years.

“It is really important they get it back. Otherwise the public
pressure for more and more offenders to go to prison will increase.
It is very important for the Probation Service and the future of the
Probation Service.

“It is vital that given the very large sums of money spent on the
Probation Service that the Probation Service better connect with the
public.”

He added: “There has been a lot of anxiety about humiliation.

“But the crucial thing is this – people who become offenders
humiliate themselves.” Ms Casey added: “We have to be clear when we
punish people. That means we can be clear we are spending money and
time making sure they don’t do it again.”

Ministers are also thinking about getting people to nominate “grot
spots” which need cleaning up.

Ms Casey people should be able to phone up a special telephone line
or nominate at public meetings areas they wanted cleaned up. The
public must see consequences for people committing offences.” Mr
Straw also said reforming community sentences would have a big
impact on jail overcrowding.

He said: “Magistrates will tell you they send people to prison out of
frustration that offenders have not got the message after a number of
chances with community sentences.

“The more effective we can make community sentences then the fewer
people will need to be sent to prison.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-20929997/

***

“The more effective we can make community sentences then the fewer
people will need to be sent to prison.”

You idiot, Straw ...to think this is, in any way, 'effective'.

WM
www.critest.com

From what I've been told community service sentences are seen as a
bit of a joke by offenders and if this is generally the case silly labels,
dunces caps, or red noses will not fix that.
Community service should not be a waste of time, and should engage
the mind and will of the offender on appropriate productive tasks.
Evidently all the government can come up with is the price of a few
labels.
j

All too literally: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labelling_theory

djornsk wrote:
Webmanager_CritEst wrote:
Criminals serving Community Service will have to wear orange bibs,
says Jack Straw

27/11/2008
Jack Straw
Community Payback

Offenders will be forced into orange uniforms when they carry out
community sentences from Monday.

In an exclusive interview, Justice Secretary Jack Straw revealed he is
making it compulsory to put wrong-doers into “vests of shame” from
next week.

He is pressing ahead despite fears Guantanamo-style outfits will
humiliate the wearers.

A total of 10,000 high- visibility tabards with “community payback”
emblazoned across the back have been ordered by the Ministry of
Justice.

The words are in purple and there will also be a “community payback”
logo on the front.

The uniforms will become a common sight as offenders wear them while
doing manual labour on Britain’s streets.

The vests have been made orange to make sure thugs cannot claim they
are construction or council workers who wear yellow outfits.

And Mr Straw told the Daily Mirror it was part of a shake-up to put
punishment back at the heart of the criminal justice system.

He said it was time to make it tougher for offenders.

Mr Straw said: “The whole purpose of this is to strengthen the
effectiveness of community punishments and improve the public’s
confidence in them.

“Community punishments are effective – often more effective than short
prison sentence.

“But some offenders think when they are given a community punishment
they are being let off.

“And the public can be forgiven for thinking the same thing. too.”

He added: “The public want to know the sentence is first and foremost
about punishment.”

Probation officers are expected to attack the move as demeaning to
offenders and dangerous as they could lead to attacks.

But Government Respect Tsar Louise Casey who has headed a major
inquiry into restoring public confidence in the criminal justice
system said it was time to make sentences tougher.

Sitting alongside Mr Straw, she said: “What is important is that
people who break the law face a consequence and that isn’t pleasant.

“The point of the orange jackets is not to humiliate people but to
make the punishment visible. We have got to be clear that if you wake
up in the morning, you go out and commit a criminal offence then you
are going to face a consequence.

“One of those consequences is that you will end up in an orange jacket
cleaning the streets in your community. From Monday that is the
message.’’ She added: “This is about making people accountable for the
offences they commit.

“The public want this to happen and it’s going to happen.”

Ms Casey added that as well as pushing offenders it would also deter
other youngsters from carrying out crimes. She tells a story of how in
a trial scheme in Birmingham, offenders were made to clean toilets in
a community centre.

“One of the kids said ‘The last thing I want to do is clean those
toilets. I think I’ll steer clear of trouble. This is why visibility
is so important.”

Mr Straw has acknowledged it had been a tough battle to bring in the
new uniforms with the Probation Service warning they would be the
modern equivalent of chain gangs.

Former Home Secretary Charles Clarke had to do an embarrassing U-turn
when he first suggested the plan in 2005. And critics claimed it would
mean offenders being humiliated in orange Guantanamo Bay-style boiler
suits.

But Mr Straw said it was important probation officers who supervise
criminals when they carry out community sentences toughen up.

He said: “Some parts of the Probation Service have frankly lost their
way over the years.

“It is really important they get it back. Otherwise the public
pressure for more and more offenders to go to prison will increase. It
is very important for the Probation Service and the future of the
Probation Service.

“It is vital that given the very large sums of money spent on the
Probation Service that the Probation Service better connect with the
public.”

He added: “There has been a lot of anxiety about humiliation.

“But the crucial thing is this – people who become offenders humiliate
themselves.” Ms Casey added: “We have to be clear when we punish
people. That means we can be clear we are spending money and time
making sure they don’t do it again.”

Ministers are also thinking about getting people to nominate “grot
spots” which need cleaning up.

Ms Casey people should be able to phone up a special telephone line or
nominate at public meetings areas they wanted cleaned up. The public
must see consequences for people committing offences.” Mr Straw also
said reforming community sentences would have a big impact on jail
overcrowding.

He said: “Magistrates will tell you they send people to prison out of
frustration that offenders have not got the message after a number of
chances with community sentences.

“The more effective we can make community sentences then the fewer
people will need to be sent to prison.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-20929997/


***

“The more effective we can make community sentences then the fewer
people will need to be sent to prison.”

You idiot, Straw ...to think this is, in any way, 'effective'.

WM
www.critest.com

From what I've been told community service sentences are seen as a bit
of a joke by offenders and if this is generally the case silly labels,
dunces caps, or red noses will not fix that.
Community service should not be a waste of time, and should engage the
mind and will of the offender on appropriate productive tasks.
Evidently all the government can come up with is the price of a few labels.

j

This is an appalling idea - entirely worthy of the person and the
government that thought it up. Humiliation doesn't work, and won't work.

There are two main reasons nowadays for repeat offending amongst young
people - leaving aside those engaged in higher level crime, where money
is the clear motive - drugs, and a dislike (bordering on hatred) of
authority. One way to get though to most young offenders (not all, of
course, some are so far gone as to be impossible to deal with), is to
build up their self-respect and feelings of self-worth. Low self-esteem
and anti-social activities often go hand-in-hand. Parading them in the
street with the equivalent of a clown's outfit is the very last thing
that most of them need.

There is also the small matter of getting the horse to drink once you've
taken it to the water. I suspect that this scheme will give those that
have to administer and supervise it rather more trouble than is anticipated.

Special Care wrote:
On Nov 28, 4:25 pm, Webmanager_CritEst wrote:
On Nov 28, 4:23 pm, Special Care
wrote:

There's a lot of debate about "public shaming." I remember reading a
couple of favourable reports on it from USA, but I don't know what the
ultimate answer is.http://www.restorativejustice.org/ed...feb08/saruling
I am all for restorative justice, but that does not include the
humiliation of anyone.

WM

----------------

Is telling the truth about someone "humiliation." Is it wrong to tell
the truth about someone?

Of course not. Tell us your real name and address and we'll see what
your neighbours, employers and parents think about your fixation with
your mothers anus.

On Nov 28, 5:32*pm, Terry Harris wrote:
Special Care wrote:
Is telling the truth about someone "humiliation." Is it wrong to tell
the truth about someone?

Of course not. Tell us your real name and address and we'll see what
your neighbours, employers and parents think about your fixation with
your mothers anus.

===========================

I have repeatedly stated my real name and town of residence and
landline telephone number.

You talk as if a "fixation with your mother's anus" is a shameful /
humiliating revelation.
If you would just read what I have written, you will see that I am
saying that the universal and most fundamental psychological /
evolutionary law, sometimes known as the "imprinting" process or
"brain wiring," unavoidaby causes every human infant to have a
fixation with the mother's anus. It's not immediately obvious to most
people, but becomes obvious when clearly explained.
The difference between us is that I remember my infancy and you have
forgotten your infancy, so you see the authentic emotional drives of
infants as shameful / humiliating.

If natural functioning were permitted, without repression or toxic
shame, there would be no unhealthy fixations or obsessions or
fetishes, but only progress and evolution and harmony and joy, in
tandem with healthy expressions of our mammalian love impulses, time
and mood permitting, and always with consent and respect.
I want to bring all this out in the open, as that is an essential part
of the healing process.

The neighbours in this town may or may not be aware of my internet
activity. I don't try to conceal it but most people at this time will
misunderstand. I have directed my GP, local health service chiefs and
the Director of Social Services for North Yorkshire to my healing
writings and discussed them with my GP; the others were not willing to
discuss them.
If you want to tell everyone else in North Yorkshire about my healing
writings, feel free. They will respond as people generally so far have
responded to my healing formula: a small number will express
acceptance and approval, a similarly small number will tell me I'm
writing "filth" [which can only mean human babies - ALL human babies -
are "filth"], and the rest of them will say nothing.
"There is no such thing as bad publicity" when it comes to promoting
new ideas or products.

At some time further down the line, the ideas I have promoted will
"catch on," because they MUST, as we all have a deep-seated craving
for genuine healing.
-Peter Newman, Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England / tel.
+44-1423-546746
---------------------------------------------------
Your Baby is not a Sack of Potatoes, Mrs !
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dddp6bt4_121hsrds9ww

On Nov 28, 4:48*pm, MM wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 07:43:30 -0800 (PST), Webmanager_CritEst

The words are in purple and there will also be a “community payback”
logo on the front.

And what if these become designer items and are worn by the general
public? Will Straw have non-offenders arrested? Then they'll be able
to wear 'em anyway.

MM

----------------------------------------

On reflection, I do think this will degenerate into farce if applied
to young people in this country.

The reports from USA that I read were about more mature people, with
jobs and families, who - when found guilty of non-violent offences
such as drunk driving or non-payment of child maintenance - were given
the choice of displaying a placard on the street for a week, stating
their crime, or going to jail for a month or two. Understandably, they
took the option of displaying the placard, and reported that it was an
effective deterrent.

Young people in England are something else.