HI,

My 23 year old son cancelled an Orange mobile phone contract and took
out a new Vodaphone one at a Carphone Warehouse store in August 2006.
When he didn't get a bill for 6 weeks, he tried to check his bill by
phone and online, and was unable to access his account.

It turned out that his phone had been linked to his stepmother's
Vodaphone account. She is (let's say) Mrs Belinda Green, date of
birth 20 December 1955. He is Mr Bernard Green, date of birth 10
July 1983. His name is given in full on his contract. They share
the same postal address and home phone number, though she mostly lives
overseas and he is at university in London. Payment for his phone
account has been taken by direct debit from her bank account. When
he took out the contract, he gave them his bank card (same bank,
different account). He has no access to her bank account, card or
details. The contract says "Validated by chip and pin" - and it was
HIS chip and pin that they took, since he doesn't have access to
anyone else's.

Somewhere along the line, it appears that someone has conflated MR
Bernard Green and MRS Belinda Green of the same address and given her
access to all his call details, and is making her pay for his phone
use.

He rang Vodaphone and they wouldn't discuss it in detail, but said it
was Carphone Warehouse's fault. Belinda Green took her contract out
directly with Vodaphone , so she has never had dealings with CW at
all. CW say it is Vodaphone's fault. Meanwhile, Belinda has access
to all Bernard's data. She has never had any parental relationship
with him and he's understandably pretty annoyed: so is she. Because
she is overseas, she cannot easily phone Vodaphone to sort this out,
and Vodaphone won't talk to Bernard because he is not "the account
holder".

He wants to write a strongly worded letter to Vodaphone to do three
things:
(1) To sort this out so that his account is separated from hers
permanently and completely
(2) To arrange for her to be refunded the payments she has made
(3) To request compensation for their casual treatment of his private
data.

Please, can anyone advise? He has agreed not to do anything until
I've checked here. I'd like to know what action we should take,
which particular legislation they are in breach of, and how to ensure
that this doesn't happen again.

Thank you.

Debbie

--
Debbie posting as Debbie

On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 20:55:02 +0000, Debbie
wrote:

snip


He wants to write a strongly worded letter to Vodaphone to do three
things:
(1) To sort this out so that his account is separated from hers
permanently and completely
(2) To arrange for her to be refunded the payments she has made
(3) To request compensation for their casual treatment of his private
data.

Please, can anyone advise? He has agreed not to do anything until
I've checked here. I'd like to know what action we should take,
which particular legislation they are in breach of, and how to ensure
that this doesn't happen again.


At this stage, they are probably not in breach of any legislation.
Mistakes happen, and this looks like one.

If they don't correct it once notified of the error, they will
probably be in breach of the DPA.

He certainly should expect 1 & 2 above, 3 is down to the mood of the
customer services manager who receives the letter. Any reasonably
decent company would give something, even if only a few months line
rental free.

But "decent company" and "mobile phone company" are close to being
antonyms, so I wouldn't bet on it.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Is "tired old cliche" one?
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 01:20:03 +0000, Alex Heney
wrote:

On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 20:55:02 +0000, Debbie
wrote:

snip


He wants to write a strongly worded letter to Vodaphone to do three
things:
(1) To sort this out so that his account is separated from hers
permanently and completely
(2) To arrange for her to be refunded the payments she has made
(3) To request compensation for their casual treatment of his private
data.

Please, can anyone advise? He has agreed not to do anything until
I've checked here. I'd like to know what action we should take,
which particular legislation they are in breach of, and how to ensure
that this doesn't happen again.


At this stage, they are probably not in breach of any legislation.
Mistakes happen, and this looks like one.

If they don't correct it once notified of the error, they will
probably be in breach of the DPA.

This is helpful. Assuming they don't correct the error, does anyone
know what part/s of the DPA are they in breach of?

He certainly should expect 1 & 2 above, 3 is down to the mood of the
customer services manager who receives the letter. Any reasonably
decent company would give something, even if only a few months line
rental free.

But "decent company" and "mobile phone company" are close to being
antonyms, so I wouldn't bet on it.

So far, the main problem is that they won't talk to him at all because
they say he's "not the account holder". But I expect that if (ever)
he gets them to communicate with him, getting any kind of decency out
of them is unlikely.

Thank you,

Debbie

"Debbie" wrote in message
...
HI,

My 23 year old son cancelled an Orange mobile phone contract and took
out a new Vodaphone one at a Carphone Warehouse store in August 2006.
When he didn't get a bill for 6 weeks, he tried to check his bill by
phone and online, and was unable to access his account.

It turned out that his phone had been linked to his stepmother's
Vodaphone account. She is (let's say) Mrs Belinda Green, date of
birth 20 December 1955. He is Mr Bernard Green, date of birth 10
July 1983. His name is given in full on his contract. They share
the same postal address and home phone number, though she mostly lives
overseas and he is at university in London. Payment for his phone
account has been taken by direct debit from her bank account. When
he took out the contract, he gave them his bank card (same bank,
different account). He has no access to her bank account, card or
details. The contract says "Validated by chip and pin" - and it was
HIS chip and pin that they took, since he doesn't have access to
anyone else's.

Somewhere along the line, it appears that someone has conflated MR
Bernard Green and MRS Belinda Green of the same address and given her
access to all his call details, and is making her pay for his phone
use.

I am not clear how this is giving Mrs Belinda Green access to all Mr Bernard
Green's access to all his call details. I presume that he is the phone
account holder but the direct debit is from Mrs Green's account.

Why cannot this simply be changed to Mr Green's account.

Meanwhile I would suggest that Mrs Green cancels the direct debit on her
account - she can ask her bank to do that - it is her bank account.

Indeed she might ask her bank how a direct debit was set up without her
permission.

Clearly there has been a cock-up but I am not sure discovering what went
wrong will be productive - it will just waste a lot of everyone's time. If
they don't correct it that is another matter.

Nick

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:20:08 +0000, Debbie
wrote:

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 01:20:03 +0000, Alex Heney
wrote:

On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 20:55:02 +0000, Debbie
wrote:

snip


He wants to write a strongly worded letter to Vodaphone to do three
things:
(1) To sort this out so that his account is separated from hers
permanently and completely
(2) To arrange for her to be refunded the payments she has made
(3) To request compensation for their casual treatment of his private
data.

Please, can anyone advise? He has agreed not to do anything until
I've checked here. I'd like to know what action we should take,
which particular legislation they are in breach of, and how to ensure
that this doesn't happen again.


At this stage, they are probably not in breach of any legislation.
Mistakes happen, and this looks like one.

If they don't correct it once notified of the error, they will
probably be in breach of the DPA.

This is helpful. Assuming they don't correct the error, does anyone
know what part/s of the DPA are they in breach of?


Section 10.

Section 14, but only if he gets a court order and they do not comply.

And they would be in breach of principle 4, which in turn puts him in
breach of section 4 of the DPA.


He certainly should expect 1 & 2 above, 3 is down to the mood of the
customer services manager who receives the letter. Any reasonably
decent company would give something, even if only a few months line
rental free.

But "decent company" and "mobile phone company" are close to being
antonyms, so I wouldn't bet on it.

So far, the main problem is that they won't talk to him at all because
they say he's "not the account holder". But I expect that if (ever)
he gets them to communicate with him, getting any kind of decency out
of them is unlikely.


The problem is that he *should be* an account holder. I can see their
point in refusing to talk to him about his step-mother's account. That
certainly *would* be a breach of the DPA.

But they should be willing to talk to him about the account *he *
should have. And get his details and call charges transferred to that
account.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Of all the people I've met you're certainly one of them
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 22:15:04 +0000, "Nick"
wrote:

I am not clear how this is giving Mrs Belinda Green access to all Mr Bernard
Green's access to all his call details. I presume that he is the phone
account holder but the direct debit is from Mrs Green's account.

No, they have added the whole contract to Belinda Green's existing
contract. This means that they are treating her as the account
holder. She's getting his itemised bill, and can check his calls
online alongside her own. Because they now think she is the account
holder, they won't discuss any details of the account with Bernard
Green.

Why cannot this simply be changed to Mr Green's account.

He tried. They won't talk to him at all.

Meanwhile I would suggest that Mrs Green cancels the direct debit on her
account - she can ask her bank to do that - it is her bank account.

If she cancels the direct debit, that means the phone bill for her own
mobile won't get paid either.

Indeed she might ask her bank how a direct debit was set up without her
permission.

When Belinda Green took out her own original contract, she arranged to
pay it by direct debt.

When Bernard Green took out his contract, they did not set up a direct
debit in his name, which they should have done because they took his
account details. Instead, they took payment for his phone rental and
calls from the already existing DD on his stepmother's account

Clearly there has been a cock-up but I am not sure discovering what went
wrong will be productive - it will just waste a lot of everyone's time. If
they don't correct it that is another matter.

I really don't much care what went wrong, but I do want to make sure
that an already difficult relationship, which has been soured further
by Vodaphone's idiocy, isn't made worse because Vodaphone can't, don't
or won't resolve it. The stepmother rightly says that she didn't
cock it up, and it's Bernard's responsibility to sort it out. Bernard
didn't mess up either. It is entirely Vodaphone's mistake, but
unless they allow Bernard Green to deal with it, then it's likely to
get more and more difficult.

Debbie

--
Debbie posting as Debbie

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 22:15:04 +0000, "Nick"
wrote:


"Debbie" wrote in message
.. .
HI,

My 23 year old son cancelled an Orange mobile phone contract and took
out a new Vodaphone one at a Carphone Warehouse store in August 2006.
When he didn't get a bill for 6 weeks, he tried to check his bill by
phone and online, and was unable to access his account.

It turned out that his phone had been linked to his stepmother's
Vodaphone account. She is (let's say) Mrs Belinda Green, date of
birth 20 December 1955. He is Mr Bernard Green, date of birth 10
July 1983. His name is given in full on his contract. They share
the same postal address and home phone number, though she mostly lives
overseas and he is at university in London. Payment for his phone
account has been taken by direct debit from her bank account. When
he took out the contract, he gave them his bank card (same bank,
different account). He has no access to her bank account, card or
details. The contract says "Validated by chip and pin" - and it was
HIS chip and pin that they took, since he doesn't have access to
anyone else's.

Somewhere along the line, it appears that someone has conflated MR
Bernard Green and MRS Belinda Green of the same address and given her
access to all his call details, and is making her pay for his phone
use.

I am not clear how this is giving Mrs Belinda Green access to all Mr Bernard
Green's access to all his call details. I presume that he is the phone
account holder but the direct debit is from Mrs Green's account.

Why cannot this simply be changed to Mr Green's account.

Meanwhile I would suggest that Mrs Green cancels the direct debit on her
account - she can ask her bank to do that - it is her bank account.

Indeed she might ask her bank how a direct debit was set up without her
permission.

Clearly there has been a cock-up but I am not sure discovering what went
wrong will be productive - it will just waste a lot of everyone's time. If
they don't correct it that is another matter.

I think you have misunderstood what has happened.

AIUI, it isn't that he has a phone account which is being debited from
her bank account.

It is that his phone is listed as an additional one on her vodaphone
account. Which means the calls made from his phone are detailed on her
bill (assuming it is itemised), and are debited as part of the single
direct debit set up for her vodaphone account.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
I can see clearly now, the brain is gone...
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

"Debbie" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 22:15:04 +0000, "Nick"
wrote:


Meanwhile I would suggest that Mrs Green cancels the direct debit on her
account - she can ask her bank to do that - it is her bank account.

If she cancels the direct debit, that means the phone bill for her own
mobile won't get paid either.

Indeed she might ask her bank how a direct debit was set up without her
permission.


I would suggest she writes to her bank and requests a refund of these
incorrect phone charges.

I might also suggest she writes a letter to vodafone but gives it to Bernard
saying he is authorised to act on her behalf to sort the mess out for the
account associated with his number. Then Bernard can write to the CE with a
copy of this letter insisting it's all sorted. Hopefully someone might then
speak to him.

"Alex Heney" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 22:15:04 +0000, "Nick"
wrote:


"Debbie" wrote in message
. ..
HI,

My 23 year old son cancelled an Orange mobile phone contract and took
out a new Vodaphone one at a Carphone Warehouse store in August 2006.
When he didn't get a bill for 6 weeks, he tried to check his bill by
phone and online, and was unable to access his account.

It turned out that his phone had been linked to his stepmother's
Vodaphone account. She is (let's say) Mrs Belinda Green, date of
birth 20 December 1955. He is Mr Bernard Green, date of birth 10
July 1983. His name is given in full on his contract. They share
the same postal address and home phone number, though she mostly lives
overseas and he is at university in London. Payment for his phone
account has been taken by direct debit from her bank account. When
he took out the contract, he gave them his bank card (same bank,
different account). He has no access to her bank account, card or
details. The contract says "Validated by chip and pin" - and it was
HIS chip and pin that they took, since he doesn't have access to
anyone else's.

Somewhere along the line, it appears that someone has conflated MR
Bernard Green and MRS Belinda Green of the same address and given her
access to all his call details, and is making her pay for his phone
use.

I am not clear how this is giving Mrs Belinda Green access to all Mr
Bernard
Green's access to all his call details. I presume that he is the phone
account holder but the direct debit is from Mrs Green's account.

Why cannot this simply be changed to Mr Green's account.

Meanwhile I would suggest that Mrs Green cancels the direct debit on her
account - she can ask her bank to do that - it is her bank account.

Indeed she might ask her bank how a direct debit was set up without her
permission.

Clearly there has been a cock-up but I am not sure discovering what went
wrong will be productive - it will just waste a lot of everyone's time. If
they don't correct it that is another matter.

I think you have misunderstood what has happened.

AIUI, it isn't that he has a phone account which is being debited from
her bank account.

It is that his phone is listed as an additional one on her vodaphone
account. Which means the calls made from his phone are detailed on her
bill (assuming it is itemised), and are debited as part of the single
direct debit set up for her vodaphone account.

Thanks.

So the single problem would be that the Vodafone accounts have been linked.

Separate them and the rest should fall in to place.

I am also with Vodafone.

I moved recently and before I moved informed Mastercard that I was changing
my address.

A few days later I tried to top up my phone automatically from my phone.

I couldn't manage to do this. When I checked it turned out that Vodafone
naturally still had my old number and for some reason the change of address
at Mastercard conflicted with the old address held by Vodafone.

Nick

Please, can anyone advise? He has agreed not to do anything until
I've checked here. I'd like to know what action we should take,
which particular legislation they are in breach of, and how to ensure
that this doesn't happen again.

He should write a letter to them setting out the detail and ask for it to be
sorted. Likewise the other party. Send it by recorded elivery to the chief
executive.

Peter Crosland