Posted in the other place as well.

A friend at work has a problem:

A member of staff (A) deals with another member of staff(B) on a daily
basis by telephone - they are in different departments in the same
company. Their telephone conversations are usually discussing
problems which are the result of a poorly implemented computer system
which (A) was involved in the decision to purchase and which runs in
(A)'s department. (B) is often scathing over the poor functionality
of the system which (B) is a user of.
As a result they often have heated but in (B)'s opinion professional
disagreements on the phone. (B)'s colleagues (C) and (D) also
experience problems with the system but are not as voluble as (B) in
their dealings with (A).
(B)'s (C)'s and (D)'s boss has previously asked for A to be removed to
a different account such that her team will not have to deal with (A).

(A) has raised a formal complaint in writing over (B)'s
professionalism in that (B) is often very rude to (A) in (A)'s
opinion. There has never been any oral comment from (A) to (B) on
(B)'s professionalism or rudeness.

(A) states that (B) "should not be in any job which involves dealing
with other people"

(B) totally refutes (A)'s claims and sees what has been said as a
malicious slur and damaging to (B)'s reputation (a number of people
are formally aware of what (A) has said - and the informal grapevine
is working overtime.

(B) expects that an investigation will exonerate (B).

Has (B) any legal remedy for what (B) sees as libelous comments by
(A).

Please do not comment on whether this is a storm in a tea cup - or it
should have been resolved amicably. It is now part of a formal
disciplinary process and (B) wants to know the options.

In article ,
Jack.and.Jill wrote:
Has (B) any legal remedy for what (B) sees as libelous comments by
(A).

Of course, (B) could sue for libel (or threaten to). They would
be foolish to do so unless they are very rich.

--
I don't play The Game - it's for five-year-olds with delusions of adulthood.

Jack.and.Jill wrote:

(A) has raised a formal complaint in writing over (B)'s
professionalism in that (B) is often very rude to (A) in (A)'s
opinion. ...

Has (B) any legal remedy for what (B) sees as libelous comments by
(A).

(B) should probably get off his or her high horse, stop whining about
libel and start taking accusations of workplace bullying seriously.

Ian

On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:10:05 +0000, "Ian"
wrote:


Jack.and.Jill wrote:

(A) has raised a formal complaint in writing over (B)'s
professionalism in that (B) is often very rude to (A) in (A)'s
opinion. ...

Has (B) any legal remedy for what (B) sees as libelous comments by
(A).

(B) should probably get off his or her high horse, stop whining about
libel and start taking accusations of workplace bullying seriously.

Ian


Oh to have a moderated group where such comments would be out of place
and not permitted.

Perhaps the OP posted in both places as (s)he expected such things to
be said in the other place; but hoped to get a more reasoned response
in here.

"Jack.and.Jill" wrote in message
...
Posted in the other place as well.

A friend at work has a problem:

A member of staff (A) deals with another member of staff(B) on a daily
basis by telephone - they are in different departments in the same
company. Their telephone conversations are usually discussing
problems which are the result of a poorly implemented computer system
which (A) was involved in the decision to purchase and which runs in
(A)'s department. (B) is often scathing over the poor functionality
of the system which (B) is a user of.
As a result they often have heated but in (B)'s opinion professional
disagreements on the phone. (B)'s colleagues (C) and (D) also
experience problems with the system but are not as voluble as (B) in
their dealings with (A).
(B)'s (C)'s and (D)'s boss has previously asked for A to be removed to
a different account such that her team will not have to deal with (A).

(A) has raised a formal complaint in writing over (B)'s
professionalism in that (B) is often very rude to (A) in (A)'s
opinion. There has never been any oral comment from (A) to (B) on
(B)'s professionalism or rudeness.

(A) states that (B) "should not be in any job which involves dealing
with other people"

(B) totally refutes (A)'s claims and sees what has been said as a
malicious slur and damaging to (B)'s reputation (a number of people
are formally aware of what (A) has said - and the informal grapevine
is working overtime.

(B) expects that an investigation will exonerate (B).

Has (B) any legal remedy for what (B) sees as libelous comments by
(A).

Please do not comment on whether this is a storm in a tea cup - or it
should have been resolved amicably. It is now part of a formal
disciplinary process and (B) wants to know the options.

How about waiting for the disciplinary process. B is entitled to
representation either informally with a friend or formally through a union
rep etc.

See http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=919 "Sample Disciplinary
Procedures"

"Counselling will be offered, where appropriate, to resolve problems.
No disciplinary action will be taken against an employee until the case has
been fully investigated.

At every stage in the procedure the employee will be advised of the nature
of the complaint against him or her and will be given the opportunity to
state his or her case before any decision is made.

At all stages of the procedure the employee will have the right to be
accompanied by a trade union representative, or work colleague.

No employee will be dismissed for a first breach of discipline except in the
case of gross misconduct, when the penalty will be dismissal without notice
or payment in lieu of notice.

An employee will have the right to appeal against any discipline imposed.

The procedure may be implemented at any stage if the employee's alleged
misconduct warrants such action."

It does seem that this overlaps with a grievance procedure regarding the
complaint by A. Doesn't the disciplinary procedure just mean that the
situation is being attempted to be resolved.

"Counselling will be offered, where appropriate, to resolve problems.

No disciplinary action will be taken against an employee until the case has
been fully investigated.

At every stage in the procedure the employee will be advised of the nature
of the complaint against him or her and will be given the opportunity to
state his or her case before any decision is made." from above link.

Nick

wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:10:05 +0000, "Ian"
wrote:


Jack.and.Jill wrote:

(A) has raised a formal complaint in writing over (B)'s
professionalism in that (B) is often very rude to (A) in (A)'s
opinion. ...

Has (B) any legal remedy for what (B) sees as libelous comments by
(A).

(B) should probably get off his or her high horse, stop whining about
libel and start taking accusations of workplace bullying seriously.

Oh to have a moderated group where such comments would be out of place
and not permitted.

I'm terribly sorry if you're hurt and offended.

Perhaps the OP posted in both places as (s)he expected such things to
be said in the other place; but hoped to get a more reasoned response
in here.

It was a genuine response. (B) is facing disciplinary action by his/her
employer for harassing another employee. Attempting to sue that other
employee for making the complaint is /not/ a sensible course of action
at this point.

Reasonable, no?

Ian

Ian wrote:

It was a genuine response. (B) is facing disciplinary action by
his/her employer for harassing another employee. Attempting to sue
that other employee for making the complaint is /not/ a sensible
course of action at this point.

Reasonable, no?

I'm inclined to agree. The doubtless hypothetical (B) shows little insight
into how their admitted behaviour would impact upon colleagues, and would do
well to reflect upon Ian's advice. Attempting to bully a complainant into
silence is not likely to be viewed as a positive response.

"Ian" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:10:05 +0000, "Ian"
wrote:


Jack.and.Jill wrote:

(A) has raised a formal complaint in writing over (B)'s
professionalism in that (B) is often very rude to (A) in (A)'s
opinion. ...

Has (B) any legal remedy for what (B) sees as libelous comments by
(A).

(B) should probably get off his or her high horse, stop whining about
libel and start taking accusations of workplace bullying seriously.

Oh to have a moderated group where such comments would be out of place
and not permitted.

I'm terribly sorry if you're hurt and offended.

Perhaps the OP posted in both places as (s)he expected such things to
be said in the other place; but hoped to get a more reasoned response
in here.

It was a genuine response. (B) is facing disciplinary action by his/her
employer for harassing another employee. Attempting to sue that other
employee for making the complaint is /not/ a sensible course of action
at this point.

Reasonable, no?

I recall an informal hearing at my workplace many years ago where my boss
and myself were present with personnel and possibly my shop steward.

I had serious problems with a colleague - but my boss wasn't prepared to
deal with them in a way that made my life easier.

At one point my boss complained that how I think he felt when I was making
complaints to or against him all the time.

It was the last refuge of a bully, because he could do what he liked.

I suspect that the result of this enquiry will be based on the power
relationships in this situation. Clearly there are great stresses in this
situation which have resulted from this computer system not working properly
(assuming that this is correct).

It seems that it is probably little to do with whether one party has been
nasty to the other - although that is how it has blown up.

Nick

"Jack.and.Jill" wrote in message
...
Posted in the other place as well.

A friend at work has a problem:

A member of staff (A) deals with another member of staff(B) on a daily
basis by telephone - they are in different departments in the same
company. Their telephone conversations are usually discussing
problems which are the result of a poorly implemented computer system
which (A) was involved in the decision to purchase and which runs in
(A)'s department. (B) is often scathing over the poor functionality
of the system which (B) is a user of.
As a result they often have heated but in (B)'s opinion professional
disagreements on the phone. (B)'s colleagues (C) and (D) also
experience problems with the system but are not as voluble as (B) in
their dealings with (A).
(B)'s (C)'s and (D)'s boss has previously asked for A to be removed to
a different account such that her team will not have to deal with (A).


Shouldn't A just knuckle down and fix the poor computer system? There are
few things worse or more annoying than computer faults that disrupt your
efforts to get the job done...

María

"María" wrote in message
...

"Jack.and.Jill" wrote in message
...
Posted in the other place as well.

A friend at work has a problem:

A member of staff (A) deals with another member of staff(B) on a daily
basis by telephone - they are in different departments in the same
company. Their telephone conversations are usually discussing
problems which are the result of a poorly implemented computer system
which (A) was involved in the decision to purchase and which runs in
(A)'s department. (B) is often scathing over the poor functionality
of the system which (B) is a user of.
As a result they often have heated but in (B)'s opinion professional
disagreements on the phone. (B)'s colleagues (C) and (D) also
experience problems with the system but are not as voluble as (B) in
their dealings with (A).
(B)'s (C)'s and (D)'s boss has previously asked for A to be removed to
a different account such that her team will not have to deal with (A).


Shouldn't A just knuckle down and fix the poor computer system? There are
few things worse or more annoying than computer faults that disrupt your
efforts to get the job done...

And there is nothing worse than computer users thinking that IT people are
magicians. Talking to each other more like civilised people rather than
people from different planets might help.

I think that both sides generally have a lot to learn.

Nick