We agreed to do some web development work for a client, and they agreed
to and accepted our (both written, and explained in person) proposal for
how the work should proceed.

After a significant amount of work was done, the client decided they
weren't happy with the way things were progressing, and pulled out.

The reason work did not progress nearly as quickly as it should was that
the client was unable or unwilling to fulfill the requirements set out
outlined in the original agreement:

* the client would not provide the visual designs and layouts we
required to work from (these were stipulated in the original
agreement

* the client was unable/unwilling to engage in crucial discussions
about how their content would fit into a content management
system

* the client was away and out of touch for significant periods of
time

* the client wasted their time and ours doing things like sending
us completely unsuitable copyrighted graphics to use

On the other hand, it wasn't all the client's fault:

* we over-estimated the client's understanding, and failed to make
sure that the client had actually appreciated what was required

* we should have stopped work until the client had provided
necessary information and materials instead of trying to do work
that in hindsight was going to be impossible

The work wasn't exactly pro bono, but was at a very favourable rate
(around 40% of a typical fee for such work), and unfortunately we didn't
(as normal practice would have been) take a payment before starting
out...

It wasn't a large amount - about £500 - but a lot of work was done (and
far more time was spent achieving what was achieved than would normally
be the case).

I don't know whether we should pursue a claim against the client for
some or all of what would have been charged:

Mainly, we could have avoided much of this if we had insisted much
sooner on the client's providing us with what we needed, instead of
trying to work around the lack of it.

Secondly, even the full sum we'd have earned is not a great amount, and
chasing people through the courts - even the county court, even if you
do it online - is a completely unfulfilling experience. And I feel it
would probably have to come to that, in this case.

Finally, the simplest and easiest thing is just to forget about the time
and money and treat it as an expensive lesson.

Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

Daniele

On Jan 20, 12:45*am,
(D.M. Procida) wrote:
We agreed to do some web development work for a client, and they agreed
to and accepted our (both written, and explained in person) proposal for
how the work should proceed.

After a significant amount of work was done, the client decided they
weren't happy with the way things were progressing, and pulled out.

The reason work did not progress nearly as quickly as it should was that
the client was unable or unwilling to fulfill the requirements set out
outlined in the original agreement:

* * * * the client would not provide the visual designs and layouts we
* * * * required to work from (these were stipulated in the original
* * * * agreement

* * * * the client was unable/unwilling to engage in crucial discussions
* * * * about how their content would fit into a content management
* * * * system

* * * * the client was away and out of touch for significant periods of
* * * * time

* * * * the client wasted their time and ours doing things like sending
* * * * us completely unsuitable copyrighted graphics to use

On the other hand, it wasn't all the client's fault:

* * * * we over-estimated the client's understanding, and failed to make
* * * * sure that the client had actually appreciated what was required

* * * * we should have stopped work until the client had provided
* * * * necessary information and materials instead of trying to do work
* * * * that in hindsight was going to be impossible

The work wasn't exactly pro bono, but was at a very favourable rate
(around 40% of a typical fee for such work), and unfortunately we didn't
(as normal practice would have been) take a payment before starting
out...

It wasn't a large amount - about £500 - but a lot of work was done (and
far more time was spent achieving what was achieved than would normally
be the case).

I don't know whether we should pursue a claim against the client for
some or all of what would have been charged:

Mainly, we could have avoided much of this if we had insisted much
sooner on the client's providing us with what we needed, instead of
trying to work around the lack of it.

Secondly, even the full sum we'd have earned is not a great amount, and
chasing people through the courts - even the county court, even if you
do it online - is a completely unfulfilling experience. And I feel it
would probably have to come to that, in this case.

Finally, the simplest and easiest thing is just to forget about the time
and money and treat it as an expensive lesson.

Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

Daniele

Not really sure what you are asking here. If the client pulled out
you would be entitled to payment of a 'reasonable sum' for the work
you did - probably calculated on a rough pro-rata basis compared to
the overall project.

But as you seem to appreciate already, this isn't going to be for much
money when taking in to account a hassle of pursuing the Court
proceedings.

Maybe see if you can agree a fee so you can get paid something.

Tommo wrote:

On Jan 20, 12:45 am,
(D.M. Procida) wrote:

We agreed to do some web development work for a client, and they agreed
to and accepted our (both written, and explained in person) proposal for
how the work should proceed.

After a significant amount of work was done, the client decided they
weren't happy with the way things were progressing, and pulled out.

The reason work did not progress nearly as quickly as it should was that
the client was unable or unwilling to fulfill the requirements set out
outlined in the original agreement

I don't know whether we should pursue a claim against the client for
some or all of what would have been charged

Not really sure what you are asking here.

I'm not really asking anything specific, more like mulling it over in
public.

If the client pulled out
you would be entitled to payment of a 'reasonable sum' for the work
you did - probably calculated on a rough pro-rata basis compared to
the overall project.

We were perhaps 75% of the way there in terms of the development. There
were a couple of big hold-ups still to be resolved (these were the
client's responsibility) and then some minor work, including the
population of the CMS, but certainly more than half of it was done.

But as you seem to appreciate already, this isn't going to be for much
money when taking in to account a hassle of pursuing the Court
proceedings.

Indeed.

In fact, it's not so much the hassle, but unpleasant feeling of it. Some
people just manage to regard it as a normal part of business, but on the
four or five times I've had to be involved in it over the last twelve
years, I found it horrible.

The worst time was once when we got the judgement and then the court
order, and the non-paying customer went on being recalcitrant, and in
the end we had to pay bailiffs to collect the money (which they did,
successfully, though by that point I was sure that too would be
fruitless).

In the end the client paid something like twice as much as he would have
if he'd just paid for the equipment and work in the normal fashion, but
we didn't get to enjoy any of the extra for all our extra hassle and
stress.

Maybe see if you can agree a fee so you can get paid something.

Agreement, unfortunately, is a probably a forlorn hope.

Daniele

"D.M. Procida" wrote in
message
...
We agreed to do some web development work for a client, and they agreed
to and accepted our (both written, and explained in person) proposal for
how the work should proceed.

After a significant amount of work was done, the client decided they
weren't happy with the way things were progressing, and pulled out.

The reason work did not progress nearly as quickly as it should was that
the client was unable or unwilling to fulfill the requirements set out
outlined in the original agreement:

* the client would not provide the visual designs and layouts we
required to work from (these were stipulated in the original
agreement

* the client was unable/unwilling to engage in crucial discussions
about how their content would fit into a content management
system

* the client was away and out of touch for significant periods of
time

* the client wasted their time and ours doing things like sending
us completely unsuitable copyrighted graphics to use

On the other hand, it wasn't all the client's fault:

* we over-estimated the client's understanding, and failed to make
sure that the client had actually appreciated what was required

* we should have stopped work until the client had provided
necessary information and materials instead of trying to do work
that in hindsight was going to be impossible

The work wasn't exactly pro bono, but was at a very favourable rate
(around 40% of a typical fee for such work), and unfortunately we didn't
(as normal practice would have been) take a payment before starting
out...

It wasn't a large amount - about £500 - but a lot of work was done (and
far more time was spent achieving what was achieved than would normally
be the case).

I don't know whether we should pursue a claim against the client for
some or all of what would have been charged:

Mainly, we could have avoided much of this if we had insisted much
sooner on the client's providing us with what we needed, instead of
trying to work around the lack of it.

Secondly, even the full sum we'd have earned is not a great amount, and
chasing people through the courts - even the county court, even if you
do it online - is a completely unfulfilling experience. And I feel it
would probably have to come to that, in this case.

Finally, the simplest and easiest thing is just to forget about the time
and money and treat it as an expensive lesson.

Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

Daniele


I am guessing the client does not have the part completed work (ie the bits
you have done are not online) and therefore they are not doing anything with
it.

If so i would try and accept it as an expensive lesson if you can. If you
persue it you may get £200 but you have to ask is it really worth the time,
hassle
and additional cost it is going to take to get it.

I have been in a vaguely similar situation. I did a full and presentation
then following at their request I did a full website template for them to
show them what i would
do as i thought we had a good relationship and they were happy with what i
was doing, they then decided not to continue based on price. I considered
trying to charge them for my time/work but let it go. It is possible they
did something with my work/advice but i guess i will never know

Mike wrote:

We agreed to do some web development work for a client, and they agreed
to and accepted our (both written, and explained in person) proposal for
how the work should proceed.

After a significant amount of work was done, the client decided they
weren't happy with the way things were progressing, and pulled out.

The reason work did not progress nearly as quickly as it should was that
the client was unable or unwilling to fulfill the requirements set out
outlined in the original agreement

I am guessing the client does not have the part completed work (ie the bits
you have done are not online) and therefore they are not doing anything with
it.

Well, it's a CMS, so what was available online was all generated by the
system, rather than being static web content.

If so i would try and accept it as an expensive lesson if you can. If
you persue it you may get £200 but you have to ask is it really worth the
time, hassle and additional cost it is going to take to get it.

That does look like the most sensible thing to do.

Daniele

(D.M. Procida) wrote in
:


Finally, the simplest and easiest thing is just to forget about the time
and money and treat it as an expensive lesson.


Sounds good to me.

--
Regards or otherwise,

Periander

"D.M. Procida" wrote in
message
...


In the end the client paid something like twice as much as he would have
if he'd just paid for the equipment and work in the normal fashion, but
we didn't get to enjoy any of the extra for all our extra hassle and
stress.


That was my experience recently. I'll give you the exact numbers. I was
chasing for a bill of GBP 1,586. The eventual court award was for that
amount plus GBP 428 interest plus GBP 370 in court fees. The client is thus
due to pay GBP 800 more than the original invoice amount, of which I get to
keep the interest element. (He has paid nearly all of it.)

I did not feel I could just pass it up, when he just didn't feel like paying
for the work we had done. However, in total, I spent nearly 2 man-days
chasing this, which is unpaid. At every stage, whilst the court fees and
interest were ratcheting up, I offered to settle the case, but it takes two
to tango. In retrospect, however strong your case, I would say that it's
worth giving quite a lot to avoid that hassle (and stress, as you say).

For GBP 500, I wouldn't go through with it again. For GBP 1500, I probably
would, but I'd make an even more stenuous attempt to settle.