On Feb 11, 12:15 pm, Squeaks wrote:
On Feb 11, 12:45 pm, Mike wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:20:14 +0000, RobertL
wrote:

My wife kept using her maiden name after we married, but our (2 year
old) daughter has my surname. This means that their two passports
have different surnames and no obvious link. She was stopped entering
the UK by the iimmigration official who, quite reasonably, wanted an
explanation of how the child was connected to her.

I'm not at all sure that this behaviour by the immigration official
was reasonable. It's not uncommon nowadays for a married woman to
choose to keep her own name and for children to be given one or other
of the parents' names. My experience is that this practice is
becoming more widespread. Thus it's likely that an increasing number
of mothers/fathers/children will have different names.

Not to speak of the large number of parents who never marry. My
partner never had any problem taking our son through immigration (he
has my surname), but she probably didn't start doing that alone until
he was in his teens.

But if the immigration officials let people through with children with
different names, anyone could therefore take your child and leave the
country. It is common that people have different names to their
children, but so is the trafficking of children, therefore the
immigration official was doing his/her job properly.

I think that asking the question was probably reasonable, but there's
not need to go any further. Trafficking children isn't /that/ common,
and I believe that the /majority/ of first children are born to
parents who are not married to each other.

I wouldn't worry about it. I would have thought: "They are my
children from my previous marriage. I have since remarried, but they
have kept their father's surname," would be sufficient explanation for
an immigration officer.

I did meet one couple where the mother had kept her married name
(because of the children), and then the new husband had changed his
name to hers. They thus ended up sharing a surname which /neither/
had been born to.

"TT_Man" wrote in message
...

"Squeaks" wrote in message
...
I am getting married next month and will be taking my Husband's name.
My children both have their father's name (my ex husband)which I would
like them to keep. Will it cause problems travelling with children
with a different surname to me on the passport? If so, is there any
way around this ie hyphonating the name so they have my surname and
their father's surname? What are the legal implications and would I
need their father's permission?

Yes, you must get written consent in case you are challenged...

Anyone got a good template ?
--
FERGUS O'ROURKE
www.irish-lawyer.com
(Not just law stuff)

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
12:15:07 on Mon, 11 Feb 2008, Squeaks remarked:
But if the immigration officials let people through with children with
different names, anyone could therefore take your child and leave the
country. It is common that people have different names to their
children, but so is the trafficking of children, therefore the
immigration official was doing his/her job properly.

When they introduced separate UK passports for children the main risk
they *claimed* to be averting was the abduction of children by one
parent, without the permission of the other.

They seemed to believe that the parent with custody would keep the
childrens' passports in a safe place, so if the other (estranged) parent
wanted to run away with the children, they could not be taken
overseas[1] as a result of having an entry in that estranged parent's
passport.

If that is their threat model, then having paperwork that proves that
the estranged parent is a true parent of the children, doesn't help *at
all*.

Meanwhile, it is my understanding that passports for children under 15
[cite required] have to be signed by a parent (not the child). That's a
quick way to ensure that the parent and child are "connected",
especially if the parent with custody ensures they are the one who signed.

I know this is a legal group, but there are some families in the UK
where the parents are still married. If I sign the chilren's passports
but my wife takes them on holiday, and she didn't change her name when
we married, then the same problem exists.

Not that this matters to me, as they are both in their 20s now.

The absence of an official scheme to link passports of one individual to
another (eg parent/child)[2] says to me that there's no perceived need
for such a thing.

[1] Which of course begs the question of how many such 'abductions'
involve overseas trips.

[2] Which would be trivially easy because passport applications for
children have to quote the parent's passport number.

This cannot possibly be a significant problem or there would always be
thousands of people backed up at Dover, waiting for permission to leave
the country with their children, their grandchildren, their nieces and
nephews, their children's friends, etc. Never mind school trips.

--
David

In message , at 14:05:06 on Mon,
11 Feb 2008, Owain remarked:
I am getting married next month and will be taking my Husband's name.
My children both have their father's name (my ex husband)which I would
like them to keep. Will it cause problems travelling with children
with a different surname to me on the passport?
Children travelling on a parent's passport is a somewhat out of date
concept, they should have their own.

.... which will have a different surname to that of their mother. I
think the OP is worried this difference in surnames may cause suspicion
of international child abduction if they take a day trip to Calais.

Guilty until proved innocent, how very reminiscent of the times we live
in.

What worries me is why the risk of abduction is apparently higher if the
names *don't* tally. All the fuss seems to be about estranged parents
where you would expect the *same* name.

What happens (and this is a true example from my own family) when
Mother-in-law takes her grandchildren on a trip. She doesn't have the
same surname, nor any other easily provable custody (other than the
combined assertion of her and the kids).
--
Roland Perry

Squeaks wrote:
I am getting married next month and will be taking my Husband's name.
My children both have their father's name (my ex husband)which I would
like them to keep. Will it cause problems travelling with children
with a different surname to me on the passport? If so, is there any
way around this ie hyphonating the name so they have my surname and
their father's surname? What are the legal implications and would I
need their father's permission?

The last I heard:
If you were married to the children's father when they were born he
automatically has "parental responsibility".
If this is the case then:
You could change their names but their father could object.
If the children are minors nobody can take them out of the court's
jurisdiction (England and I believe Wales) without the permission of
both parents. I used to have to ask my ex-wife before I took mine abroad.

In message , at 17:35:05 on Mon, 11
Feb 2008, Invisible Man remarked:
If the children are minors nobody can take them out of the court's
jurisdiction (England and I believe Wales) without the permission of
both parents. I used to have to ask my ex-wife before I took mine
abroad.

That must be really difficult if you live in Cornhill-on-Tweed and do
your shopping in Coldstream.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl...006,-2.237864&
spn=0.041649,0.160675&z=13&om=0
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:35:05 on Mon, 11
Feb 2008, Invisible Man remarked:
If the children are minors nobody can take them out of the court's
jurisdiction (England and I believe Wales) without the permission of
both parents. I used to have to ask my ex-wife before I took mine
abroad.

That must be really difficult if you live in Cornhill-on-Tweed and do
your shopping in Coldstream.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl...006,-2.237864&
spn=0.041649,0.160675&z=13&om=0
I suspect a general permission would have been acceptable.
Whilst most of my relatives live in Scotland I never took the children
there. Scotland does however have a different legal system so it would
be taking the children out of the English courts jurisdiction.

On Feb 11, 5:35*pm, Invisible Man
wrote:
Squeaks wrote:
I am getting married next month and will be taking my Husband's name.
My children both have their father's name (my ex husband)which I would
like them to keep. Will it cause problems travelling with children
with a different surname to me on the passport? If so, is there any
way around this ie hyphonating the name so they have my surname and
their father's surname? What are the legal implications and would I
need their father's permission?

The last I heard:
If you were married to the children's father when they were born he
automatically has "parental responsibility".
If this is the case then:
You could change their names but their father could object.
If the children are minors nobody can take them out of the court's
jurisdiction (England and I believe Wales) without the permission of
both parents. I used to have to ask my ex-wife before I took mine abroad.

Myself and my children are British with British passports but live in
Germany so do a lot of travelling back and forth to the UK. Their
Father is in the UK and still has parental responsibility.
My understanding (and the T&C's in a lot of holiday brochures upon
booking travel) is that if you were travelling with someone elses
children, you have to have in your posession a letter of consent from
the parents. You are also required to do this to visit some countries
with your children if the other parent is not accompanying you.
The reason I asked this question in the first place is because I was
looking at a holiday brochure and to make a family it stated that you
had to send them family ID documents and in brackets it said passports
to prove that the children are your own.

On Feb 11, 7:30*pm, Squeaks wrote:
On Feb 11, 5:35*pm, Invisible Man
wrote:





Squeaks wrote:
I am getting married next month and will be taking my Husband's name.
My children both have their father's name (my ex husband)which I would
like them to keep. Will it cause problems travelling with children
with a different surname to me on the passport? If so, is there any
way around this ie hyphonating the name so they have my surname and
their father's surname? What are the legal implications and would I
need their father's permission?

The last I heard:
If you were married to the children's father when they were born he
automatically has "parental responsibility".
If this is the case then:
You could change their names but their father could object.
If the children are minors nobody can take them out of the court's
jurisdiction (England and I believe Wales) without the permission of
both parents. I used to have to ask my ex-wife before I took mine abroad..

Myself and my children are British with British passports but live in
Germany so do a lot of travelling back and forth to the UK. Their
Father is in the UK and still has parental responsibility.
My understanding (and the T&C's in a lot of holiday brochures upon
booking travel) is that if you were travelling with someone elses
children, you have to have in your posession a letter of consent from
the parents. You are also required to do this to visit some countries
with your children if the other parent is not accompanying you.
The reason I asked this question in the first place is because I was
looking at a holiday brochure and to make a family it stated that you
had to send them family ID documents and in brackets it said passports
to prove that the children are your own.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I meant 'to make a family booking'

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
,
at 10:20:14 on Mon, 11 Feb 2008, RobertL
remarked:
The simplest solution seems to be to carry the marriage certificate
or child's birth certificate so that a link can be established
between the two surnames.

That'll be one of those modern birth certificates that say at the
bottom "this is not proof of identity", I suppose??

And which the British Government use as proof of identity?
--
John Briggs