In message
, at
13:20:06 on Sat, 16 Feb 2008, remarked:
Firstly :- From the deeds I own the land on which the road runs.

Secondly: Rights of way -
1) it's a Public Bridleway
2) most of the land (fields) either side of the road is in various
(2or 3) different ownerships - I suppose they would expect to access
it from the road through existing field gates onto the road - tho only
one has done so in the last 10 years as they have other ways to access
(thru other fields for e.g.).
3) then there's us and the neighbours
that's it I think.

Thirdly: Yes there is some references in original deeds and later
referring documentation about a covenant to contribute to upkeep and
maintenance.

But does the neighbour have a covenant to contribute?
--
Roland Perry

On 16 Feb, 13:40, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
13:20:06 on Sat, 16 Feb 2008, remarked:

Firstly :- From the deeds I own the land on which the road runs.

Secondly: Rights of way -
1) it's a Public Bridleway
2) most of the land (fields) either side of the road is in various
(2or 3) different ownerships - I suppose they would expect to access
it from the road through existing field gates onto the road - tho only
one has done so in the last 10 years as they have other ways to access
(thru other fields for e.g.).
3) then there's us and the neighbours
that's it I think.

Thirdly: Yes there is some references in original deeds and later
referring documentation about a covenant to contribute to upkeep and
maintenance.

But does the neighbour have a covenant to contribute?
--
Roland Perry

where would be the best place to check for this?
thanks in advance

"steve robinson" wrote in message
...
Palindrome wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:20:14
on Sat, 16 Feb 2008, Bystander remarked:
This can be really complicated. I live on a bridleway and some
neighbours' deeds show ownership to the middle, some don't
mention it. We all try to keep our bit in reasonable repair, but
we failed completely to get agreement to chip in to repair the
entrance surface, which everyone has to use.

I know someone who lives on a private road, quite a short one, and
they've been struggling for 30 years to get the various neighbours
to agree to necessary repairs and so on. I think one or two of the
residents recently "gave up" and did it at their own expense.

This is one area where there seems to be considerable "market
failure" - people are so used the model where the council does all
the thinking for them, that they simply can't/won't get their
heads around doing it privately/co-operatively.


You can understand why. There are so many ways to argue that the
costs should be split and for each, there are winners and losers. No
one wants their neighbours to be able to boast about how they "won"
-so no-one will agree to a plan that means they pay more than a
different plan would result in.

When an independent body makes a decision, the neighbours may still
pay less, but at least they haven't "won".


Watch them all run for cover when someone gets injured because of the
state of the roadway

And how will they be liable by "doing nothing"

Presumably the road is obviously one that needs to be driven along
carefully. If anyone ignore that and has an accident it will be their own
fault.

tim


--

wrote:
On 16 Feb, 09:25, "Chris R" wrote:
wrote in message

...
To access my house I share a mile of unmade road (& public
bridleway)
with one neighbouring property.
For several years I have politely tried to get agreement to repair
the road and share costs.
Every attempt has been thwarted by unco-operative stances and
excuses.

Now my neighbour is in the process of divorce & again is not
interested in contributing - even though such work will obviously
improve both our properties' value.

Can I do the work and send them a bill? How do I get them to pay
their share? Is it harder now they are divorcing?

thanks in advance

You need to look at your deeds (or if the land is registered, the
Land
Registry registered title). First, who owns the road? It may be one
of you,
or it may be the owner of the land adjoining the road. No-one except
the
landowner can repair it without the landowner's consent unless they
have
right to do so.

Secondly, what rights of way exist over the road? You should find
that each
of you has right of way over the road, except for the any part of
the road
you each own.

Thirdly, what obligations are there about maintenance? Usually the
grant of
a right of way will contain an obligation on the person granted the
right
either to maintain the road or to contribute to someone else
maintaining it.

If you find that your neighbour does have an obligation to
contribute, point
it out to him. If that doesn't secure his co-operation you need a
solicitor
to advise you on whether you will be able to enforce the obligation,
before
you incur a lot of cost you might not be able to get back.

When you know what the deeds show, post back here.

Chris R

OK - bear with me -

Firstly :- From the deeds I own the land on which the road runs.

Secondly: Rights of way -
1) it's a Public Bridleway
2) most of the land (fields) either side of the road is in various
(2or 3) different ownerships - I suppose they would expect to access
it from the road through existing field gates onto the road - tho only
one has done so in the last 10 years as they have other ways to access
(thru other fields for e.g.).
3) then there's us and the neighbours
that's it I think.

Thirdly: Yes there is some references in original deeds and later
referring documentation about a covenant to contribute to upkeep and
maintenance.

So am I better off:- a) first mentioning to them (I suspect they know)
so he knows I know? or b) just have a chat with the family solicitor
to see whether it's enforceable & therefore worth 'stirring it' with
them at all?

thanks for all replies so far

In which case, it is your responsibility to maintain the road, and you may
(or may not) have covenants requiring other users to contribute to the
costs.
--
John Briggs

On 16 Feb, 14:25, "John Briggs" wrote:
wrote:
On 16 Feb, 09:25, "Chris R" wrote:
wrote in message

...
To access my house I share a mile of unmade road (& public
bridleway)
with one neighbouring property.
For several years I have politely tried to get agreement to repair
the road and share costs.
Every attempt has been thwarted by unco-operative stances and
excuses.

Now my neighbour is in the process of divorce & again is not
interested in contributing - even though such work will obviously
improve both our properties' value.

Can I do the work and send them a bill? How do I get them to pay
their share? Is it harder now they are divorcing?

thanks in advance

You need to look at your deeds (or if the land is registered, the
Land
Registry registered title). First, who owns the road? It may be one
of you,
or it may be the owner of the land adjoining the road. No-one except
the
landowner can repair it without the landowner's consent unless they
have
right to do so.

Secondly, what rights of way exist over the road? You should find
that each
of you has right of way over the road, except for the any part of
the road
you each own.

Thirdly, what obligations are there about maintenance? Usually the
grant of
a right of way will contain an obligation on the person granted the
right
either to maintain the road or to contribute to someone else
maintaining it.

If you find that your neighbour does have an obligation to
contribute, point
it out to him. If that doesn't secure his co-operation you need a
solicitor
to advise you on whether you will be able to enforce the obligation,
before
you incur a lot of cost you might not be able to get back.

When you know what the deeds show, post back here.

Chris R

OK - bear with me -

Firstly :- From the deeds I own the land on which the road runs.

Secondly: Rights of way -
1) it's a Public Bridleway
2) most of the land (fields) either side of the road is in various
(2or 3) different ownerships - I suppose they would expect to access
it from the road through existing field gates onto the road - tho only
one has done so in the last 10 years as they have other ways to access
(thru other fields for e.g.).
3) then there's us and the neighbours
that's it I think.

Thirdly: Yes there is some references in original deeds and later
referring documentation about a covenant to contribute to upkeep and
maintenance.

So am I better off:- a) first mentioning to them (I suspect they know)
so he knows I know? or b) just have a chat with the family solicitor
to see whether it's enforceable & therefore worth 'stirring it' with
them at all?

thanks for all replies so far

In which case, it is your responsibility to maintain the road, and you may
(or may not) have covenants requiring other users to contribute to the
costs.
--
John Briggs

interesting - so do I mend it and invoice those who are covered under
(enforcible) covenants and then sue if they don't pay - or is their
some more dreaded discussion and agreement needed first (bearing in
mind no agreement has been made in our 10year ownership!) and also the
neighbours are divorcing...

many thanks

wrote in message
...
On 16 Feb, 09:25, "Chris R" wrote:
wrote in message

...
To access my house I share a mile of unmade road (& public bridleway)
with one neighbouring property.
For several years I have politely tried to get agreement to repair the
road and share costs.
Every attempt has been thwarted by unco-operative stances and excuses.

Now my neighbour is in the process of divorce & again is not
interested in contributing - even though such work will obviously
improve both our properties' value.

Can I do the work and send them a bill? How do I get them to pay their
share? Is it harder now they are divorcing?

thanks in advance

You need to look at your deeds (or if the land is registered, the Land
Registry registered title). First, who owns the road? It may be one of
you,
or it may be the owner of the land adjoining the road. No-one except the
landowner can repair it without the landowner's consent unless they have
right to do so.

Secondly, what rights of way exist over the road? You should find that
each
of you has right of way over the road, except for the any part of the
road
you each own.

Thirdly, what obligations are there about maintenance? Usually the grant
of
a right of way will contain an obligation on the person granted the right
either to maintain the road or to contribute to someone else maintaining
it.

If you find that your neighbour does have an obligation to contribute,
point
it out to him. If that doesn't secure his co-operation you need a
solicitor
to advise you on whether you will be able to enforce the obligation,
before
you incur a lot of cost you might not be able to get back.

When you know what the deeds show, post back here.

Chris R

OK - bear with me -

Firstly :- From the deeds I own the land on which the road runs.

Secondly: Rights of way -
1) it's a Public Bridleway
2) most of the land (fields) either side of the road is in various
(2or 3) different ownerships - I suppose they would expect to access
it from the road through existing field gates onto the road - tho only
one has done so in the last 10 years as they have other ways to access
(thru other fields for e.g.).
3) then there's us and the neighbours
that's it I think.

Thirdly: Yes there is some references in original deeds and later
referring documentation about a covenant to contribute to upkeep and
maintenance.

So am I better off:- a) first mentioning to them (I suspect they know)
so he knows I know? or b) just have a chat with the family solicitor
to see whether it's enforceable & therefore worth 'stirring it' with
them at all?

thanks for all replies so far

If you own the land, maintenance is probably your primary responsibility,
but it sounds as if he may well have an obligation to contribute to the
cost. In that case it's probably your decision what to do and how much to
spend, and he just has to pay up. But if you want to rely on being able to
recover from the neighbour before you spend the money you should (1) tell
him what you intend to do and give him an opportunity to object - he might
be right - and (2) consult a solicitor who can go through the deeds, do any
searches and advise properly on your ability to recover.

Chris R

In message
, at
14:00:12 on Sat, 16 Feb 2008, remarked:
Thirdly: Yes there is some references in original deeds and later
referring documentation about a covenant to contribute to upkeep and
maintenance.

But does the neighbour have a covenant to contribute?

where would be the best place to check for this?

Not 100% sure but:

If the neighbour won't show you his deeds (and there's no reason for him
to either have them, or co-operate) maybe the only person who will know
is the person who originally developed the neighbour's house and
arranged (presumably) right of way over the road on your land. This of
course assumes that you don't have any copies of paperwork from that
era, yourself.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 15:45:17 on Sat, 16 Feb
2008, Roland Perry remarked:
Thirdly: Yes there is some references in original deeds and later
referring documentation about a covenant to contribute to upkeep and
maintenance.

But does the neighbour have a covenant to contribute?

where would be the best place to check for this?

Not 100% sure but:

If the neighbour won't show you his deeds (and there's no reason for
him to either have them, or co-operate) maybe the only person who will
know is the person who originally developed the neighbour's house and
arranged (presumably) right of way over the road on your land. This of
course assumes that you don't have any copies of paperwork from that
era, yourself.

Thinking about this some more, the position regarding the upkeep of the
road should have been one of the things your solicitor queried when you
bought the property, and the necessary documents proving who was
responsible or not produced by the previous owner. Or is this some
property that was acquired through a less formal route?
--
Roland Perry

Have you checked to see if the neighbour's property is registered? If it is
you can buy a copy from the Land Registry for AFAIK £4. This will tell you
what their legal liability is.

Peter Crosland

wrote:

On 16 Feb, 14:25, "John Briggs" wrote:
wrote:
On 16 Feb, 09:25, "Chris R" wrote:
wrote in message


s.com...
To access my house I share a mile of unmade road (& public
bridleway)
with one neighbouring property.
For several years I have politely tried to get agreement to
repair the road and share costs.
Every attempt has been thwarted by unco-operative stances and
excuses.

Now my neighbour is in the process of divorce & again is not
interested in contributing - even though such work will
obviously improve both our properties' value.

Can I do the work and send them a bill? How do I get them to pay
their share? Is it harder now they are divorcing?

thanks in advance

You need to look at your deeds (or if the land is registered, the
Land
Registry registered title). First, who owns the road? It may be
one of you,
or it may be the owner of the land adjoining the road. No-one
except the
landowner can repair it without the landowner's consent unless
they have
right to do so.

Secondly, what rights of way exist over the road? You should find
that each
of you has right of way over the road, except for the any part of
the road
you each own.

Thirdly, what obligations are there about maintenance? Usually
the grant of
a right of way will contain an obligation on the person granted
the right
either to maintain the road or to contribute to someone else
maintaining it.

If you find that your neighbour does have an obligation to
contribute, point
it out to him. If that doesn't secure his co-operation you need a
solicitor
to advise you on whether you will be able to enforce the
obligation, before
you incur a lot of cost you might not be able to get back.

When you know what the deeds show, post back here.

Chris R

OK - bear with me -

Firstly :- From the deeds I own the land on which the road runs.

Secondly: Rights of way -
1) it's a Public Bridleway
2) most of the land (fields) either side of the road is in various
(2or 3) different ownerships - I suppose they would expect to
access it from the road through existing field gates onto the
road - tho only one has done so in the last 10 years as they have
other ways to access (thru other fields for e.g.).
3) then there's us and the neighbours
that's it I think.

Thirdly: Yes there is some references in original deeds and later
referring documentation about a covenant to contribute to upkeep
and maintenance.

So am I better off:- a) first mentioning to them (I suspect they
know) so he knows I know? or b) just have a chat with the family
solicitor to see whether it's enforceable & therefore worth
'stirring it' with them at all?

thanks for all replies so far

In which case, it is your responsibility to maintain the road, and
you may (or may not) have covenants requiring other users to
contribute to the costs.
--
John Briggs

interesting - so do I mend it and invoice those who are covered under
(enforcible) covenants and then sue if they don't pay - or is their
some more dreaded discussion and agreement needed first (bearing in
mind no agreement has been made in our 10year ownership!) and also the
neighbours are divorcing...

many thanks


You really need to speak to your family solicitor , covenants can be
very difficult to enforce if the orginal signatories are not around and
houses have been bought and sold on several times , its often the case
the paperwork has been lost or just never past on in subsequent housing
transactions and your neiebours may not have even been aware when the
house was purchased that a covenant had been in place at some point.

If i was in thier position and my paperwork when i purchased the house
did not flag up any covenants then i certainy wouldnt pay up


If you do the work and sue those that dont or cant pay you are likely
to be on a hiding too nothing unless you have a larg amount of cash to
spare whilst the case drags on , even if you win it doesnt mean you wll
ever see any of your money

--