In message , at 02:50:17 on
Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Jon Ribbens remarked:
http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/en/pj/...etTypeCode=SVR

So how can you do this at Paddington Station, when you're buying a
ticket from a machine?

You go to the ticket office and ask to see a copy. In my experience,
this will cause the staff to look shocked and confused, and to spend
twenty minutes or more rooting around behind the scenes trying to find
a copy.

Although they won't need to do that to answer a question about BoJ on a
Saver, that's well enough known about.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
tim..... wrote:
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
On the other hand if you were met at the barrier by a staff member who
says your ticket is invalid, you might say `oh I was just looking for
the sandwich shop / phone topup / etc and I'm going to get on the next
train'.

As a general rule, the type of ticket that does not allow travelling short,
also requires travel on only on specific train (I.e the one that you have
just got off).

The outbound half of an ordinary walk-up saver return doesn't specify
particular trains but does not allow a break of journey (and thus
presumably doesn't allow cutting short).

(there are tickets that allow you to make a connection at a branch onto "any
train", but the availability of such tickets is dependent on the
availability on the main part of the route. As such, this will always cost
more than a ticket for just the main part would have cost)

Also many advance tickets are partially for travel on non-reservable
trains. For example in an AP ticket to Cambridge from anywhere via
London, the Cambridge-London leg does not have seat reservations and
is thus unrestricted. So the situation I describe could arise then
too.

--
Ian Jackson personal email:
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657

On 24 Jul, 13:40, Ian Jackson wrote:

The outbound half of an ordinary walk-up saver return doesn't specify
particular trains but does not allow a break of journey (and thus
presumably doesn't allow cutting short).

Traditionally the view with the SVR outward/SVS has been that ending
short is permitted, but BoJ is not. As such, the ticket becomes
invalid as soon as you leave railway premises and cannot be
"restarted", but by merely ending short you do not invalidate the
ticket for the journey completed before doing so.

Starting late has been more up for debate.

Neil

In article ,
Neil Williams wrote:
Traditionally the view with the SVR outward/SVS has been that ending
short is permitted, but BoJ is not. As such, the ticket becomes
invalid as soon as you leave railway premises and cannot be
"restarted", but by merely ending short you do not invalidate the
ticket for the journey completed before doing so.

Perhaps this has been because of the practical difficulties of
preventing passengers from absconding from their journeys without
proper leave :-).

--
Ian Jackson personal email:
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657

In message , at 17:40:14 on Thu,
24 Jul 2008, Ian Jackson remarked:
Traditionally the view with the SVR outward/SVS has been that ending
short is permitted, but BoJ is not. As such, the ticket becomes
invalid as soon as you leave railway premises and cannot be
"restarted", but by merely ending short you do not invalidate the
ticket for the journey completed before doing so.

Perhaps this has been because of the practical difficulties of
preventing passengers from absconding from their journeys without
proper leave :-)

But the new "Advance" ticket rules prohibit it, so they must think that
enforcement is a possibility.
--
Roland Perry

In message
, at
14:50:04 on Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Neil Williams
remarked:
The outbound half of an ordinary walk-up saver return doesn't specify
particular trains but does not allow a break of journey (and thus
presumably doesn't allow cutting short).

Traditionally the view with the SVR outward/SVS has been that ending
short is permitted, but BoJ is not. As such, the ticket becomes
invalid as soon as you leave railway premises and cannot be
"restarted", but by merely ending short you do not invalidate the
ticket for the journey completed before doing so.

Starting late has been more up for debate.

I agree with all of this, but add that it's possible that some train
companies view the absence of someone joining the train at the starting
point as also invalidating the ticket (even if you join later on the
same train's journey).

Hopefully this will all be clarified when new T&C are introduced in the
Autumn to accompany the new "complificated" walk-up fares structure.
Some people may not enjoy the effects of greater clarity! I have no
inside information, merely looking at the way the 'Advance' T&C have
already changed.
--
Roland Perry

On 24 Jul, 17:40, Ian Jackson wrote:

Perhaps this has been because of the practical difficulties of
preventing passengers from absconding from their journeys without
proper leave :-).

This practicality aspect means that Break of Journey restrictions are
practically never enforced, IMX.

Neil

In message
, at
09:55:09 on Fri, 25 Jul 2008, Neil Williams
remarked:
Perhaps this has been because of the practical difficulties of
preventing passengers from absconding from their journeys without
proper leave :-).

This practicality aspect means that Break of Journey restrictions are
practically never enforced, IMX.

If you need to go through a barrier to restart your journey it's likely
that a ticket would be rejected (happened to me) and you have to explain
what's going on to a sceptical gripper.
--
Roland Perry

On Jul 23, 8:10*pm, "tim....." wrote:
there are tickets that allow you to make a connection at a branch onto "any
train", but the availability of such tickets is dependent on the
availability on the main part of the route. *As such, this will always cost
more than a ticket for just the main part would have cost

Such tickets don't always cost more.

For example, Advance tickets from St Pancras to Sheffield are
available at the same price to Leeds via Sheffield.

In this instance, the local Sheffield - Leeds journey is the "branch"
and after arrival at Sheffield you can travel to Leeds on any
unreservable train that day - there are usually 3 an hour on weekdays.
That part of the journey is, effectively, free.

It's a separate debate whether you're allowed to choose one of the
reservable Leeds - Sheffield trains to complete your journey.

John

Roland Perry wrote:

Hopefully this will all be clarified when new T&C are introduced in the
Autumn to accompany the new "complificated" walk-up fares structure.
Some people may not enjoy the effects of greater clarity! I have no
inside information, merely looking at the way the 'Advance' T&C have
already changed.

I suspect, however, that all that will change will be the name on the
ticket. The restrictions will likely still vary according to the journey.

"The Manual" (replacing the current Retail and Fares Manuals) is due to
launch on 12th August, but will only be available online through the
Fares and Retail Publications Portal, not in printed form.

Cheers,

Barry