lid wrote:
Are a a qualified dentist?

Does one have to be a qualified electronic engineer to return faulty
electronic goods?


You don't have to be qualified but you have to be knowledgeable if you
want to use a sensible analogy which would meant that your complaint was
that the quality of electronic engineering wasn't up to scratch (rather
than the device simply not working).

On 30 Sep, 13:15, Diddly Doo wrote:
tonyjeffs wrote:
I was annoyed because I *believe those two fillings the locum
'repaired' were close to *perfect and shouldn't have been touched.
I don't mind paying. (good if extra filling work doesn't cost extra
though), but I was tempted to punish and expose the locum.
- but I'm going to put it down to experience instead.

Are a a qualified dentist?

That doesn't really matter in the long run, though no I'm not. My
'opinion' is that the work was inappropriate. If I did decide to lock
horns formally and my credibility on the subject was disputed I'd
engage an expert witness.

The inappropriateness is in two ways;
An analogy: If I put a car in for an MOT, and he did an oil change
instead, I could argue that
(1) it didn't need an oil change and
(2) The purpose of the visit was not for an oil change.

I don't need to be an expert in the field to support point (2).

Tony

On 30 Sep, 14:30, "Peter Crosland" wrote:
My dentist, P, is by far the best I've ever had. He does a minimal
amount of work on my teeth, and does it well.
Three months ago I lost a filling. P put in a temporary one as an
emergency measure and set an appointment to replace it. He
unfortunately became ill, and had to cancel two appointments.
I finally visited to have the temporary filling replaced on the 29th
Sept.

The receptionist said "P has had to take emergency leave. You will be
seeing a locum. Is that alright?". I hesitated but said "yes"

The locum came out to greet me and struck me as pleasant and chatty.

He looked at my teeth. He said. "The temporary filling is still fine.
I will leave it for P to replace it because he is familiar with that
tooth. I am going to repair two other fillings. I won't give you an
anaesthetic because I'll only be drilling the fillings; not the
tooth."

A few minutes into the treatment I thought to myself "This is
inappropriate - I don't believe that those two fillings need
resurfacing. I didn't come here for any reason other than to have the
temporary filling replaced." But I decided I needed to let him
finish.

He finished and said "Is that ok?". I felt the two ragged chunky
tongue-irritating fillings with my tongue and they clearly were not
ok, but I didn't trust him to do a better job, and knew that P would
fix them perfectly next time i saw him. So I said 'yes', and left.

Although I'm on the NHS, I still have to pay. I think I will ask for
an itemised bill and refuse to pay for today's treatment.

If in doing this I risk alienating O, or losing him as a dentist, I
will back down.

Does that sound reasonable?
Does a locum dentist have a financial incentive for doing work that
is unnecessary or inappropriate?

Tony

Have they actually marked the treatment complete and given you the
bill?

No I have a new pending *appointment for my actual dentist to replace
the temporary filling.
I was annoyed because I *believe those two fillings the locum
'repaired' were close to *perfect and shouldn't have been touched.
I don't mind paying. (good if extra filling work doesn't cost extra
though), but I was tempted to punish and expose the locum.
- but I'm going to put it down to experience instead.

I am sorry to, as it were, rub salt in the wound but unless, and until, you
have had the fillings done by the locum independently inspected then you
don't really have a case. Far better to tell your normal dentist of your
concerns, and if he confirms that they were not done properly you can be
sure he will deal with the locum. This is likely to be a much more effective
way of dealing with the matter.

Peter Crosland- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Peter, I agree with you completely. My dentist, I know, will be
diplomatic but supportive of me and will make the fillings smooth and
comfortable.
Here's an example of why I think he's so good.

My kids have never needed dental work.
Sone years ago, my young daughter had a routine checkup. It was a
(different) locum who said to my surprise "Your daughter needs three
fillings", and booked an appointment.
On return, my dentist, P, was back.
I said uncomfortably - "She needs three fillings apparantly. She's
never needed any before"
He said "Hmmm.... I'll apply some fluoride paint to each of those
teeth. Technically it counts as a filling". He hadn't drilled my
daughter's teeth unnecessarily, and he hadn't maligned his colleague.


Poor guy has been off sick for 3 months. I don't know him personally
well enough to ask about that, but wish him well & hope he's better
soon.
Cheers
Tony

tonyjeffs wrote:
On 30 Sep, 13:15, Diddly Doo wrote:
tonyjeffs wrote:
I was annoyed because I believe those two fillings the locum
'repaired' were close to perfect and shouldn't have been touched.
I don't mind paying. (good if extra filling work doesn't cost extra
though), but I was tempted to punish and expose the locum.
- but I'm going to put it down to experience instead.
Are a a qualified dentist?

That doesn't really matter in the long run, though no I'm not. My
'opinion' is that the work was inappropriate. If I did decide to lock
horns formally and my credibility on the subject was disputed I'd
engage an expert witness.

The inappropriateness is in two ways;
An analogy: If I put a car in for an MOT, and he did an oil change
instead, I could argue that
(1) it didn't need an oil change and
(2) The purpose of the visit was not for an oil change.

I don't need to be an expert in the field to support point (2).

Tony


Your analogy is flawed because you agreed to the change in the scope of
the work.

A better analogy would be:
Taking your car for some specialist work but finding the specialist was
away that day but being told by a competent engineer that the car was OK
on that count but that some other minor bits of work needed doing which
you agreed to.

Halfway through that work, you started to change your mind about its
necessity (although you had no concrete grounds to dispute the advice
you were given) and once it was completed you formed the opinion that it
had been poorly executed.

tonyjeffs wrote:

Peter, I agree with you completely. My dentist, I know, will be
diplomatic but supportive of me and will make the fillings smooth and
comfortable.
Here's an example of why I think he's so good.

My kids have never needed dental work.
Sone years ago, my young daughter had a routine checkup. It was a
(different) locum who said to my surprise "Your daughter needs three
fillings", and booked an appointment.
On return, my dentist, P, was back.
I said uncomfortably - "She needs three fillings apparantly. She's
never needed any before"
He said "Hmmm.... I'll apply some fluoride paint to each of those
teeth. Technically it counts as a filling". He hadn't drilled my
daughter's teeth unnecessarily, and he hadn't maligned his colleague.


Poor guy has been off sick for 3 months. I don't know him personally
well enough to ask about that, but wish him well & hope he's better
soon.

I have had a similar experience. I have used the same dentist for 30 years
or more. On one occasion I saw a different dentist, who told me that
several fillings would be necessary and that I should book an appointment
with his "dental hygienist" who could separately attend to that aspect, at
extra cost. I decided not to go back, and went back to my original dentist.
He found no need for fillings and did the descaling himself, as he always
does, and charged me a modest sum for that (he's private, but good value).
That was two or three years ago and I don't have toothache so I think his
judgment was right.

I don't know how you can assess, objectively, whether a dentist is doing
more than necessary. You can't waste time and money getting a second opinion
from an expert.

wrote in message
...
Are a a qualified dentist?

Does one have to be a qualified electronic engineer to return faulty
electronic goods?

There's a wrld of difference between an item not working and somone claiming
that a dentist performmed work that wasn't required.

"tonyjeffs" wrote in message
...
On 30 Sep, 13:15, Diddly Doo wrote:
tonyjeffs wrote:
I was annoyed because I believe those two fillings the locum
'repaired' were close to perfect and shouldn't have been touched.
I don't mind paying. (good if extra filling work doesn't cost extra
though), but I was tempted to punish and expose the locum.
- but I'm going to put it down to experience instead.

Are a a qualified dentist?

That doesn't really matter in the long run, though no I'm not. My
'opinion' is that the work was inappropriate. If I did decide to lock
horns formally and my credibility on the subject was disputed I'd
engage an expert witness.

The inappropriateness is in two ways;
An analogy: If I put a car in for an MOT, and he did an oil change
instead, I could argue that
(1) it didn't need an oil change and
(2) The purpose of the visit was not for an oil change.

I don't need to be an expert in the field to support point (2).

Tony

_______________________
But you agrred to having the work done. If you were unsaure you could have
left the surgery and returned when your regular dentist was back.

On Sep 29, 11:15*pm, tonyjeffs wrote:
My dentist, P, is by far the best I've ever had. He does a minimal
amount of work on my teeth, and does it well.
Three months ago I lost a filling. *P put in a temporary one as an
emergency measure and set an appointment to replace it. *He
unfortunately became ill, and had to cancel two appointments.
I finally visited to have the temporary filling replaced on the 29th
Sept.

The receptionist said "P has had to take emergency leave. You will be
seeing a locum. Is that alright?". I hesitated but said "yes"

The locum came out to greet me and struck me as pleasant and chatty.

He looked at my teeth. He said. "The temporary filling is still fine.
I will leave it for P to replace it because he is familiar with that
tooth. I am going to repair two other fillings. I won't give you an
anaesthetic because I'll only be drilling the fillings; not the
tooth."

A few minutes into the treatment I thought to myself "This is
inappropriate - I don't believe that those two fillings need
resurfacing. I didn't come here for any reason other than to have the
temporary filling replaced." *But I decided I needed to let him
finish.

He finished and said "Is that ok?". *I felt the two ragged chunky
tongue-irritating fillings with my tongue and they clearly were not
ok, but I didn't trust him to do a better job, and knew that P would
fix them perfectly next time i saw him. *So I said 'yes', and left.

Although I'm on the NHS, I still have to pay. I think I will ask for
an itemised bill and refuse to pay for today's treatment.

If in doing this I risk alienating O, or losing him as a dentist, I
will back down.

Does that sound reasonable?
Does a locum dentist have a financial incentive for doing *work that
is unnecessary or inappropriate?


As a general idea, it is not a good idea to alienate someone who can
cause you a lot of pain.

On 1 Oct, 09:35, Dave wrote:
tonyjeffs wrote:
On 30 Sep, 13:15, Diddly Doo wrote:
tonyjeffs wrote:
I was annoyed because I *believe those two fillings the locum
'repaired' were close to *perfect and shouldn't have been touched.
I don't mind paying. (good if extra filling work doesn't cost extra
though), but I was tempted to punish and expose the locum.
- but I'm going to put it down to experience instead.
Are a a qualified dentist?

That doesn't really matter in the long run, though no I'm not. *My
'opinion' is that the work was inappropriate. If I did decide to lock
horns formally and *my credibility on the subject was disputed I'd
engage an expert witness.

The inappropriateness is in two ways;
An analogy: If I put a car in for an MOT, and he did an oil change
instead, I could argue that
(1) it didn't need an oil change and
(2) The purpose of the visit was not for an oil change.

I don't need to be an expert in the field to support point (2).

Tony

Your analogy is flawed because you agreed to the change in the scope of
the work.


Dave,
You're right. -everyone has got this right except me!!
There's no way around it . I didn't want to say yes, but I did. I
wasn't under pressure.
I guess I knew that really in the back of my mind, but needed someone
else to point it out.
I'm going to find a way to practice and develop assertiveness in such
situations.

A lesson to learn!
Tony